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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › Here is your New America
04-04-2009 09:21 PM  9 years agoPost 41
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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But, where is it? Show me.
Included in the Patriot Act were two key provisions on airline security. The first defined disruptive behavior as a terrorist act.

The second broadened the existing criminal law so that any attempt or conspiracy to interfere with a flight crew became a felony — a change that allowed flight personnel to act against suspicious passengers even if they hadn’t begun an actual assault.

FBI Admits Patriot Act Abuse

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1721

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/20...atriot-act.html

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Proof enough? Or, do you need more?

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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04-05-2009 01:07 AM  9 years agoPost 42
philip 01

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ft worth

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some will argue just for the sake of arguing. put the information out there and let them believe what they want. some get it, some don't.

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04-05-2009 01:31 AM  9 years agoPost 43
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Yeah, that's proof enough 1stplace. I had never seen those videos until now. Glad to see someone dug that up and I do hope no one was harmed as a result.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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04-05-2009 02:05 AM  9 years agoPost 44
BJames111

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Glad you brought those videos out 1st place. Patriot act was the biggest violation of our Rights as Americans.

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04-05-2009 02:06 AM  9 years agoPost 45
Dragon2115

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New England

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I think the point that's being lost here is, does the Patriot Act specifically give law enforcement the authority to act in the manner being questioned here or is it a minority of them that are over stepping the law?

We have laws that dictate when a search may be performed and they're usually based on there being probable cause. How many times has an over-the-top cop pulled someone over, didn't like what was said to them and then made up the excuse, "I smelled marijuana", when there was none in the vehicle and they knew it? So what do we do, throw out all the laws that provide for legal searchs because some will abuse them or do we hold the cop that stepped over the line accountable for what they did wrong?

One thing to remember about the Patriot Act. It was in response to 9/11 when everyone was griping and pointing fingers at everyone for how the terrorists got onboard the airplane. Everyone cried for more security and they got it. And the bill was written and enacted so fast in response to public outcry to "do something" that it's loaded with unintended consequences. Much like all the stimulous and bailout bills that have been passed recently. The first TARP bill was passed into law within a couple of days of the final version being written. Who the hell would be able to read it and then figure out all of the ramifications before they voted on it with that kind of timeline?

One of the things that amazes me is how people judge the effectiveness of a session of Congress by how many bills they pass into law. I didn't realize it was a race. But that's how we get these seriously flawed laws.

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04-05-2009 02:24 AM  9 years agoPost 46
BJames111

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San Diego, California

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it's loaded with unintended consequences.
I think the people who wrote the bill knew exactly what they were doing.

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04-05-2009 02:25 AM  9 years agoPost 47
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Glad you brought those videos out 1st place. Patriot act was the biggest violation of our Rights as Americans.
Well, if it was that bad, then tell us how your rights were violated by the Patriot Act James.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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04-05-2009 02:27 AM  9 years agoPost 48
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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I think the point that's being lost here is, does the Patriot Act specifically give law enforcement the authority to act in the manner being questioned here or is it a minority of them that are over stepping the law?
Speaking for myself, I think it has been the minority.

Laws will and have been abused since time began.

With or without the Patriot Act.

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04-05-2009 04:14 AM  9 years agoPost 49
BJames111

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San Diego, California

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Well, if it was that bad, then tell us how your rights were violated by the Patriot Act James.
Like usual your comments are rude with a smart a$$ tone, It doesn't have to personally affect me to be wrong. Dennis, the patriot act gives the right to detain indefinately anyone considered an Enemy combatant, or a terrorist without defining what an enemy combatant or a terrorist even is. Literally it allows for completely side stepping the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th amendment to the constitution. The Patriot act IS unconstitutional, and gravely endangers any person, or party that might disagree with the authority of the government.

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04-05-2009 04:26 AM  9 years agoPost 50
Billme

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MS

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amen, and Amen

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04-05-2009 04:28 AM  9 years agoPost 51
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Literally it allows for completely side stepping the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th amendment to the constitution
No it does not. Neither does it bypass the Geneva Convention because terrorists are not part of a state or a country that we are specifically at war with. The Geneva Convention only covers soldiers that are sent against another by a country or state.

The Patriot Act is not illegal, nor is it against the Constitution. It was ratified by both Republican & Democrat Congresses as a tool for the war on terror. That makes it legal.
Dennis, the patriot act gives the right to detain indefinitely anyone considered an Enemy combatant, or a terrorist
Cool.

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04-05-2009 06:03 AM  9 years agoPost 52
Billme

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MS

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I think I like Judge Napolitanos answers better...

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04-05-2009 12:20 PM  9 years agoPost 53
Dragon2115

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New England

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I think the people who wrote the bill knew exactly what they were doing.
Really, even with all the examples of stunning stupidity from the same people?

And what about the rest of Congress that voted it into law? Remember, the PA passed the Senate by a vote of 98 to 1 with one not voting and the House by 357 to 66 with nine not voting. Are you saying that Congress passed a bill without actually reading it first? What did you say about them knowing what they were doing?

The fact is it was a knee-jerk response to public outcry to "do something" in the wake of 9/11 and it's just like all the so-called "stimulous" bills are a knee-jerk reaction to the financial crisis. Which is why the public should be careful when they demand fast action from politicians. In the case of the Patriot Act we got something that can be abused. In the case of the stimulous bills they had no idea of how to stimulate an economy so they threw money they did have in every direction possible and then told us there's no guarranty it will work.

So once again I ask, do you really think these people know what they're doing given the mountain of evidence to the contrary?

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04-05-2009 02:10 PM  9 years agoPost 54
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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Well, if it was that bad, then tell us how your rights were violated by the Patriot Act James.
Alright Dennis,
I know the question wasn't directed to me. But, Let me give you one of my experiences since the patriot act.

In 2004, my wife and I went to a Blimpie's convention in DC. Blimpie's gave us each a bag of gifts when we left. The woman who handed them to us, said "If you're flying, You need to know there is a knife in each of these bags." My wife said ok, and we headed to the motel to get our luggage and check out. At the motel, my wife looked in her bag to see the knife that the woman told us about. Well, she found a plastic fork and knife set. She laughed, and we just left them in the bags.

At Reagan Int'l, we were both pulled aside for "additional" searches. We had to remove our shoes, get wanded, and our bags were hand searched after having been X-rayed. Our carry on baggage was her purse and the two Blimpie's bags. No problems, and we boarded the flight. Upon gtting home, my wife started unpacking. When she started looking at the gifts from Blimpie's, she yelled "Honey, you gotta see this!". I walked over to her, and she was holding a twelve inch, incredibly sharp, bread knife!

That's right, the security at Reagan Int'l, missed the knives! We didn't even know they were in there... Doesn't that give you a nice warm and fuzzy feeling about how well the Patriot Act and airline security have improved life and made us safer since 9/11?

I can't help but wonder what they would have done to us had they found them?

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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04-05-2009 02:52 PM  9 years agoPost 55
Dragon2115

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New England

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But that says nothing about the Patriot Act and everything about incompetent screeners.

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04-05-2009 03:08 PM  9 years agoPost 56
Billme

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MS

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The PA was not written over the weekend folks, it included 10,000 pages when it was presented...Surely this piece had been waiting in the wings for years to be presented...Only one person said he read it before the QUICK vote...
This only means it is part of a agenda, even more so now with whats going on at the present...

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04-05-2009 03:15 PM  9 years agoPost 57
BJames111

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San Diego, California

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The PA was not written over the weekend folks, it included 10,000 pages when it was presented...Surely this piece had been waiting in the wings for years to be presented...Only one person said he read it before the QUICK vote...
This only means it is part of a agenda, even more so now with whats going on at the present...
EXACTLY. Yes I can absolutely see congress voting for something they didn't read. It was passed in a panic amid public outcry like you say. It has been mentioned before, the administration KNEW something like 9/11 was going to happen, and 9/11 was a perfect time to ask the public to give up some more of their rights.

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04-05-2009 03:55 PM  9 years agoPost 58
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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But that says nothing about the Patriot Act and everything about incompetent screeners.
No, it clearly demonstrates that the added security detailed in the the PA did nothing to improve security. This was AFTER the TSA took over airline security. The only thing the new regs accomplished was inconveniencing passengers and treating them like criminals before allowing them to board an airliner (and doing a piss poor job of it).

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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04-05-2009 04:12 PM  9 years agoPost 59
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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No, it clearly demonstrates that the added security detailed in the the PA did nothing to improve security. This was AFTER the TSA took over airline security. The only thing the new regs accomplished was inconveniencing passengers and treating them like criminals before allowing them to board an airliner.
Although I would agree that airline security and the people involved in that borders on stupidity, there were no further attacks after 9/11. That is in part due to the Patriot Act and the tools it gave us to stop further attacks. Yes, the American people lost a few freedoms since 9/11 and the Patriot Act. Speaking for myself, I would not call them lost freedoms. But rather just added inconveniences.

What are you willing to sacrifice in order to stay safe and do the best you can to stop further terror attacks? Would you rather have NO Patriot Act and nothing like it and just respond when we are attacked? Or would you rather do the best you can to prevent further attacks and save innocent lifes?

BTW: This nonsense that Bush knew about 9/11 before it happened it just plain old Bush Hatred we have heard for many years is the same as the worn out controversy over Obama's birth certificate. Its just BS.

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04-05-2009 04:24 PM  9 years agoPost 60
Billme

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MS

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Its possible our Presidents are being used as a pawns with this agenda considering the people they have surrounding them..

All of them are guilty of not following the Constitution, that is a fact without recourse...

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