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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › Here is your New America
04-04-2009 01:04 PM  9 years agoPost 21
lordsirob

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Treasure Coast, FL - USA

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"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Ben Franklin.

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04-04-2009 01:44 PM  9 years agoPost 22
Mutt

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M ca usa

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Just a bunch of idiots with small penis syndrome and let thier "power" go to thier heads. Personally the guy should file a suit agaisnt the idiots as he commited no crime just asked a simple question they would or couldnt answer. No different then a cop abusing his "power".

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04-04-2009 03:05 PM  9 years agoPost 23
whirlyspud

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USA

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I don't buy that this is all just due to the patriot act. None of you were ever pulled over by a cop for what ever reason and then had them play 20 questions with you over stuff that was none of their business? I mean before Bush or Obama. I have. I think it boils down more to the comment about some of them being untrained Monkeys. I do not have many instances where I interact with the law, but I do not tend to be a law breaker, but when a cop pulls me over for something stupid, and starts asking questions that are none of his business, I tend to not go along with them either. I think alot of it boils down to the fact that many simple do not even know the laws the are trying to enforce. And at the same time they think a Badge gives them powers that it does not. Alot like what Mutt said. I'm not sure why, but the ones that have earned the most respect from me have all been State Troopers. I've never had a State Trooped start asking me BS questions about something that had nothing to do with the reason they stopped me. I think they are simply trained in the jobs to a higher standard.

Mike

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04-04-2009 03:07 PM  9 years agoPost 24
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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Then please tell us what part of the "Patriot Act" targets people with just the wrong bumper stickers?

I fail to see that connection.
That's because you're looking for a connection that isn't there. The part of the patriot act, which the airport cops were trying to enforce, was:
SEC. 371. BULK CASH SMUGGLING INTO OR OUT OF THE UNITED STATES.
(b) PURPOSES- The purposes of this section are--
(1) to make the act of smuggling bulk cash itself a criminal offense
In addition to that, MO Law enforcement had recently received the MIAC report labeling Libertarians as domestic terrorists.The officers thought they had enough evidence to detain this man. All this, in a Republican state.

This has happened hundreds, if not thousands of times, over the past two decades. People have been detained indefinitely by the federal government, without any evidence against them. Some have even been shipped to Gitmo or Afghanistan.

Years ago, I was in a similar situation. I was detained by local cops, drilled with ridiculous questions, and finally the FBI stepped in and told them to release me... Had I not been released at that time, there is a very good chance that I would have been killed, just like Kenney Trentadue was.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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04-04-2009 03:09 PM  9 years agoPost 25
whirlyspud

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USA

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For the smuggling part into or out of the US, would than not mean that your flight had to be international?

Mike

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04-04-2009 03:13 PM  9 years agoPost 26
Mutt

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M ca usa

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If I remember right the amount to consider being a red flag was 10K and that is a long ways away from 4700 bucks.

5332. Bulk cash smuggling into or out of the United States

(a) Criminal Offense.—
(1) In general.— Whoever, with the intent to evade a currency reporting requirement under section 5316, knowingly conceals more than $10,000 in currency or other monetary instruments on the person of such individual or in any conveyance, article of luggage, merchandise, or other container, and transports or transfers or attempts to transport or transfer such currency or monetary instruments from a place within the United States to a place outside of the United States, or from a place outside the United States to a place within the United States, shall be guilty of a currency smuggling offense and subject to punishment pursuant to subsection (b).
(2) Concealment on person.— For purposes of this section, the concealment of currency on the person of any individual includes concealment in any article of clothing worn by the individual or in any luggage, backpack, or other container worn or carried by such individual.
(b) Penalty.—
(1) Term of imprisonment.— A person convicted of a currency smuggling offense under subsection (a), or a conspiracy to commit such offense, shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years.
(2) Forfeiture.— In addition, the court, in imposing sentence under paragraph (1), shall order that the defendant forfeit to the United States, any property, real or personal, involved in the offense, and any property traceable to such property.
(3) Procedure.— The seizure, restraint, and forfeiture of property under this section shall be governed by section 413 of the Controlled Substances Act.
(4) Personal money judgment.— If the property subject to forfeiture under paragraph (2) is unavailable, and the defendant has insufficient substitute property that may be forfeited pursuant to section 413(p) of the Controlled Substances Act, the court shall enter a personal money judgment against the defendant for the amount that would be subject to forfeiture.
(c) Civil Forfeiture.—
(1) In general.— Any property involved in a violation of subsection (a), or a conspiracy to commit such violation, and any property traceable to such violation or conspiracy, may be seized and forfeited to the United States.
(2) Procedure.— The seizure and forfeiture shall be governed by the procedures governing civil forfeitures in money laundering cases pursuant to section 981 (a)(1)(A) of title 18, United States Code.
(3) Treatment of certain property as involved in the offense.— For purposes of this subsection and subsection (b), any currency or other monetary instrument that is concealed or intended to be concealed in violation of subsection (a) or a conspiracy to commit such violation, any article, container, or conveyance used, or intended to be used, to conceal or transport the currency or other monetary instrument, and any other property used, or intended to be used, to facilitate the offense, shall be considered property involved in the offense.

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04-04-2009 03:25 PM  9 years agoPost 27
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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For the smuggling part into or out of the US, would than not mean that your flight had to be international?
No, they don't know where he was coming from. They did know that he was flying to a coastal state.
If I remember right the amount to consider being a red flag was 10K and that is a long ways away from 4700 bucks.
That's correct. But, that amount of cash could lead to a larger amount of cash, if they were to search for it. Good thing they didn't try.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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04-04-2009 03:33 PM  9 years agoPost 28
whirlyspud

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USA

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Yeah, and a 10 could lead to a 20 and so on. Still did not give them any rights in this case. Carry $9999.99 and tell them to pound sand. Just be sure you don't have an extra penny that you did not know about. I have to admit, whether or not I would answer would likely have alot to do with the attitude of the cop. If they treat me like a jerk, they get nothing that is not required.

Mike

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04-04-2009 03:58 PM  9 years agoPost 29
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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If they treat me like a jerk, they get nothing that is not required.
Exactly! But, when I was detained, it was because I looked similar to the John Doe II sketches that were all over the news. There was no evidence against me, other than "Hey! He looks just like that sketch on the news!"

You want to talk about being scared sh*tless? Try putting yourself in my position. 168 people were killed, and law enforcement are trying to pin it on you!

I was picked up at a laundromat. Four police cars with eight cops pulled into the parking lot. All eight of them had their guns aimed at me. They demanded that I turn around and get on the ground. They cuffed me and put me in their cruiser. I asked if I was being arrested. One of the cops laughed and said "No, you're being detained." I asked what the difference was. He said "You still have rights when you're arrested."

All I can say, is thank God, the FBI let me go. Local law enforcement wasn't quite so kind to the rest of the John Doe II suspects.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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04-04-2009 04:20 PM  9 years agoPost 30
Billme

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MS

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They had no probable cause to stop this man, much less hold him.
They already knew who he was. That is the reason for the well dressed man with bug in his ear to tell them to let him go...

As for as the cash, why should there be any limit to a citizen holding cash. Its because cash is freedom..They want to eliminate it. they want to gives the appearance if you hold to much cash, you are a criminal. How insane is this in a supposedly free society.

Why do they limit the amount you can put into your on IRA? What business is it of theirs?

Why are they going to go back to the 60% inheritance tax?

Ask yourself why?

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04-04-2009 04:23 PM  9 years agoPost 31
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Why are they going to go back to the 60% inheritance tax?

Ask yourself why?
Everything else set aside, its because its an excellent source of revenue.

Don't matter if its right or not. I don't agree with it. I think its wrong and distasteful.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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04-04-2009 04:24 PM  9 years agoPost 32
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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JohnLund
Well, this one you can thank the Bush administration for starting, and bet good money that the Obamanation will take to the next level.
Thats the statement I was challenging John. You mentioned it was the Patriot Act by Bush that started it all. I asked you to show proof a couple of times. You didn't show any proof at all. Instead, we got this:
If you want everyone to stop being "blind" when you rant on about democrats, than tip your partisan hat back a bit about "republicans". Thanks to the "Patriot" Act, the DHS, TSA are pretty much free to do what they want, and label people how they see fit. Harassing citizens, in the name of "security", has become a routine for these barely trained monkeys. Lets face it, when papers like the MIAC report are even created, we have given our "law" enforcement agencies too much rope. I suppose you also think it's ok for the TSA to order private airlines to turn over Passenger Name List for domestic flights so they can bounce them off a database of known, and suspected terrorist? Well if you do, than I can't wait for the day that the Obamanation decides that YOUR political views are a threat to the USSA, and bounces YOUR name of that list, or puts it on there. Because I am going to be standing there telling you, "I told you so".
Dennis, I understand that critical thinking isn't your strong suit, and the big picture eludes you if it creeps into you partisanship, but try to stay focused. It isn't about the "Patriot" Act saying anything about bumper stickers, it is about the "Patriot" Act and the mentality that follows it, giving government agencies powers to determine on whim who is what in regards to national "security". It's about agencies being able to put out a report labeling Americans that talk about the Constitution, and supporting libertarian candidates as members of militias. It's about government agencies having the power to label those that are against their agenda as an enemy of the state. Unfortunately, you probably won't get it until it has turned on you.
You see Monkey, if something doesn't fit into Dennis's agenda, or his little partisan bubble, than whoever is saying it is "ranting and raving", and even though the truth is slapping him in the face. He just repeats the same thing over and over hoping it becomes true, not unlike GimbalFan. Dennis is a hypocrite. He hates the .gov if they are doing leftist things, but defends it tooth and nail if it is doing righty things. Control of the populace through a police state Dennis, is the same as control of the populace through the welfare state.

And Dennis it is a fact that a report was issued saying that supporters of Ron Paul, Bob Barr, and Chuck Baldwin are possible "domestic terrorist", as well as, hold on to your seat...members of the Constitutional Party, Pro-life people, people that believe themselves to be sovereign citizens, tax resistors, people who are anti-illegal immigration, and so forth. They also use such subversive lingo as Molon Labe, and use gunshows for recruiting. So no Dennis, it isn't an opinion, it is a fact. The people purchased some temporary security at the low low cost, of a little bit of liberty, and the first installment was the "Patriot" Act. When your political, or religious views can be used to single you out as an enemy of the state, than this is no longer a free country. I know it's ok with you Dennis, as long as it is the left political views, or someone of a religion other than yours are being persecuted, but like I said, when the other side is in charge, and Obama uses the same powers you so gleefully gave to the Bush administration, don't cry to anyone but yourself.
Oh, and Dennis, no one said that the "Patriot" Act says anything about bumper stickers, that is you trying to inject something into the conversation that you know isn't true, so you can pretend to have a point to argue. You know, it's kind of interesting you making a false statement, to try proving someone else made a false statement.
Ok, whatever. You are entitled to your opinions.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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04-04-2009 05:52 PM  9 years agoPost 33
Billme

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MS

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Dang Dennis

Your not going to find the law, its a interpretation of the law who a enemy combatant is.It was design that way...We now know that US citizens have been detain using the Patriot Act, even under the drug laws ...

Its not whats written in the law so much, its what they do! I don't need to read the 15,000 pages of the PA to know we are turning into a police state with abuse of power..

I ask you, does it need to be in the law to be justified?

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04-04-2009 06:19 PM  9 years agoPost 34
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Dang Dennis

Your not going to find the law, its a interpretation of the law who a enemy combatant is.It was design that way...We now know that US citizens have been detain using the Patriot Act, even under the drug laws ...

Its not whats written in the law so much, its what they do! I don't need to read the 15,000 pages of the PA to know we are turning into a police state with abuse of power..

I ask you, does it need to be in the law to be justified?
As previously mentioned in my conversation with John is that I have heard lots and lots of ranting and raving about the Patriot Act, its intentions and its outcomes. Whenever I have challenged anyone about their views on it and how evil the law is and how badly its being used and against the citizens of the USA, every single time, I get a response that provides absolutely no proof what so ever, and no reference to what section of the Patriot Act that is being used against the citizens of the USA.

The president (Bush) presented it (The Patriot Act) to Congress sometime after 9/11 and Congress affirmed it of 2 or 3 different occasions. I realize there are some that will use the law out of bounds for whatever reasons. That unfortunately happens even well before the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act was not set up to spy on anyone's neighbor, or the neighbor dog, or you. It was set up to find and punish terrorists, and their financial set up to protect the citizens of the USA. It has been used to catch criminals in the USA also. Fine.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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04-04-2009 06:56 PM  9 years agoPost 35
BJames111

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San Diego, California

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It was set up to find and punish terrorists, and their financial set up to protect the citizens of the USA. It has been used to catch criminals in the USA also. Fine.
I think what John is trying to say is that You obviously do not see the potential for abuse here, or the ulterior motives behind the patriot act. All you are seeing is what was presented to you BY the Bush administration, so you can be "safe and protected".

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04-04-2009 07:05 PM  9 years agoPost 36
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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I think what John is trying to say is that You obviously do not see the potential for abuse here, or the ulterior motives behind the patriot act. All you are seeing is what was presented to you BY the Bush administration, so you can be "safe and protected".
Yes, set up by the Bush administration and affirmed by both Repub and Dem Congresses.

As already mentioned, laws will be abused, even before and likely without the Patriot Act.

Sure, there very well may be a potential for abuse.

But, where is it? Show me.

Also, you mentioned an ulterior motive behind the Patriot Act.

What would that be?

I would suspect that would be your opinion with no basis in fact. Prove me wrong.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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04-04-2009 07:39 PM  9 years agoPost 37
Billme

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MS

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Dennis, you must have worked, or working for the Government Only bureaucrat would throw out BS like that!

Nothing personal, just pure chewing the fat here

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04-04-2009 07:42 PM  9 years agoPost 38
Billme

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MS

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Dennis,
Do you know how the lottery works?, If so tell us...I want to hear your version of it

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04-04-2009 07:52 PM  9 years agoPost 39
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Dennis, you must have worked, or working for the Government Only bureaucrat would throw out BS like that!

Nothing personal, just pure chewing the fat here
Never have worked for the Government.

Always worked since age 16. Now 62. Never unemployed.

Now self employed and semi retired.

Nothing personal from this side either.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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04-04-2009 07:53 PM  9 years agoPost 40
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Dennis,
Do you know how the lottery works?, If so tell us...I want to hear your version of it
You go buy a ticket with some numbers on it and you loose.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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