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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Carb servo program mixing
04-02-2009 08:19 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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Does anyone have any experience with an in-flight needle adjustment servo and with program mix doing it?

If so, what did you do and how did it work out for you?

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04-02-2009 11:16 PM  9 years agoPost 2
Sean Williams

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Santa Clarita CA

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Well you couldn't really mix it to your throttle if thats what you're saying. It just wouldn't work. What do you mean?

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04-02-2009 11:30 PM  9 years agoPost 3
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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It's just an idea I have.
I have the servo, I have the push rods, and I have a few spare channels not getting used for anything, I was trying to think of ways to make use of all my stuff.

My thought was to perhaps mix it with the collective.
Like for example, when using a lot of collective, I could automatically lean the high-speed needle a couple clicks for more power during some monster climbouts.

To me it sounds like a neat idea and I think I might try it.

I was looking for feedback from anyone who may have had a similar idea and have had experience doing such a thing.

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04-02-2009 11:37 PM  9 years agoPost 4
payne1967

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uk

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if your radio has the ratchet type sliders at its edge then use one of these to control the channel the servo is on and then adjust the mixture manualy
but be warned if you leave the slider in the lean position you could end up with a wrecked motor

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04-03-2009 12:07 AM  9 years agoPost 5
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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^^No, thats not what I want to do at all.
I'm asking about mixing, making everything automatic.

Worrying and fumbling about a slider is not something I or anyone needs to be preoccupied with while flying.

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04-03-2009 12:38 AM  9 years agoPost 6
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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It could be done mechanically easily enough. I don't see why you couldn't do it electronically. That's a great idea! Keep us posted.

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04-03-2009 12:46 AM  9 years agoPost 7
Sean Williams

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Santa Clarita CA

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But the problem is I think you would accidentally end up going lean too much. And besides, even 50's put out more than enough power when turned right. Interesting thought though.

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04-03-2009 12:48 AM  9 years agoPost 8
payne1967

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uk

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on the futaba 9c in the advanced menu you have throttle to needle mixing with a 5 piont curve
does this fix what you want to do?

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04-03-2009 12:50 AM  9 years agoPost 9
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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Maybe you could assign the mixing to a switch so it would not go lean every time.

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04-03-2009 01:05 AM  9 years agoPost 10
Magnazan

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Auckland - New Zealand

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Better getting a carbsmart and running it with your servo. Then it will automatically lean and richen the needles.

Ian | 7HV ULT | Rave Ballistic FSO | Warp 360 | DX9

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04-03-2009 01:14 AM  9 years agoPost 11
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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Better getting a carbsmart and running it with your servo. Then it will automatically lean and richen the needles.
I knew someone was going to CarbSmart.
And to that I say, CarbSmarts are retarded!

A carbsmart has one agenda, and thats maintaining a temperature.
The tradeoff with a carbsmart is you have INCONSISTENT POWER.

It goes richer when it wants to go richer, it goes leaner when it wants to go leaner. And the pilot has NO CONTROL over what the carbsmart is doing.

Watch some heli videos where you know the pilot was using a carbsmart (or MG-Pro) The 2008 XFC videos are good ones to watch because seemingly half the field was using them.

Watch the exhaust trails coming off the helis. sometimes it's there, sometimes it isn't. With a straight face, please tell me that is consistent power. I think not.

This is not a carbsmart thread.
Moving on....

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04-03-2009 01:16 AM  9 years agoPost 12
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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My objective with a mixed carb servo is, "Power only when I need it, and only when I tell it to."

That, my friend, is something an automatic needle adjuster cannot do!

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04-03-2009 01:22 AM  9 years agoPost 13
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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Fortunately for me, I own a 9303. Setting up a program mix is already taken care of, and honestly couldn't have been easier.

Since nothing is set-up on the helicopter, I have no idea as far as travel adjust yet. These numbers are all just temporary.

Have a look.

The Aux 3 slider is DISABLED from the Device Select menu so it doesn't get bumped.

Taking advantage of a 7 point mix curve, Its set to only lean the engine at higher collective pitch ranges. Nothing is set up on the helicopter, but Im guessing the engine will start to lean at @ 8 degrees +/-

Mix will only be on in Idle Up 2. All other flight modes it is deactived.

Notice Aux 3 moves with the collective stick

Aux 3 is centered (or close to center) at mid stick.

I've got to fully break in an engine, so it will be several days to a week before I put this to the test.

Comments/ Suggestions are welcome. (no carbsmart comments allowed!)
Thanks

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04-03-2009 01:41 AM  9 years agoPost 14
Dilbeck

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Springdale Arkansas

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Interesting subject, I wonder if focusing on cooling the engine might get you where you want to be. Then you could run lean all the time and have max power anytime you wanted it. Cooling using water through hollow tubes through the frame exc. COOLING is the key to power!!

Clint

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04-03-2009 01:44 AM  9 years agoPost 15
fiveoboy01

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Waunakee, WI - USA

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A carbsmart has one agenda, and thats maintaining a temperature.
The tradeoff with a carbsmart is you have INCONSISTENT POWER.
Actually it's trying to maintain a mixture/AF ratio. Temp sensor is how it gets there because the two are directly related. Most guys say the power is MORE consistent, which makes sense. Look at an eagletree temp graph.. One needle setting it's all over the place, and with the CS you get a much "flatter" line.... hence a more consistent mixture. But I've never used one and don't really plan to, just more screwing around and one more thing to fail...

Your p-mix idea is a good one, but the only thing I see as a potential problem is that when you are making needle adjustments, the engine does not respond to them right away... it usually takes 3-5 seconds to see a change in the way the engine runs and I'm sure that varies from engine to engine(more specifically the carburetion). Also I think that large collective climbouts are probably the last place you'd want to be leaning out your engine... The temp is already climbing and leaning will just make it that much hotter.

Mikado Logo 400, hopefully ready by spring.

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04-03-2009 01:51 AM  9 years agoPost 16
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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My idea is that it works with short bursts. I don't actually plan on doing 10 second climbouts or anything like that... Thats a really long time!

I see your point with the "Also I think that large collective climbouts are probably the last place you'd want to be leaning out your engine..." Thats definitely something to think about. Something to watch closely.

I'll play around with this set up over the coming weeks, and of course I will be monitoring engine temperatures very closely.
My thoughts on this are that this is really going to work, and work well. But we'll see.

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04-03-2009 03:33 AM  9 years agoPost 17
Sean Williams

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Santa Clarita CA

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OK but in a short collective blip, there won't be enough time for the leaner mixture to reach the piston if I'm getting you right.

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04-03-2009 06:53 PM  9 years agoPost 18
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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Comments?

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04-03-2009 08:27 PM  9 years agoPost 19
kangarooster

rrApprentice

Orlando Fl-USA

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I see you had a 9Z. The WCII has a good program and a walk thru to get it set for the different points.If you still have the manual maybe you can adapt. It was designed for an OS but it has worked on anything I tryed it on.

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04-03-2009 10:06 PM  9 years agoPost 20
VooDooX

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San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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i believe that with mixing the change will happen lagged so you would have to start the mix at really low collective when doing high collective moves thus negating its usefulness because when i change the needle on the ground it takes a good 3-4 seconds for me to hear/see a difference

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Carb servo program mixing
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