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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Setting up for 3D flying
04-01-2009 02:46 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Flying Brian

rrElite Veteran

St. Clairsville, Ohio

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I understand expo pretty good, but do have questions regaurding. Do 3D pilots use expo, or do they not?

I would assume they do, but it would depend on the style 3D they was flying. Meaning, if they are stick jamming hard, I would say, why have it. But for somone just wanting to attempt loops, rolls, inverted, would still use it, but not at an overkill rate.

I like my pitch range where it is at(+10 & -10), but my elevator and alieron is very stable, meaning, I can use them in hard motions, with little response. What is the fix exactly? what am I looking for?

I have been practicing on the Simulator, and want to do stationary forward loops, stationary rolls, and that is about it. There is no way my elevator would be able to pull off a stationary loop(at high altitude) the way its set up now. It would take way to much space, and time.

So what do I need to do exactly, to get more responce out of them, just add more throw, but be carefull not to bind? Is this a simple fix?

By adding more throw, would this be done simply by adding to the ATV rates where they are now, which is 100%, or is this a mechanical and ditigal adjustment that I need to make. Meaning, I want a simple and fast fix, as I dont want to get confused, and out of whack, as Im trying to K.I.S.S.

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-01-2009 03:09 PM  9 years agoPost 2
Ktbone

rrApprentice

NH

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In your CCPM Swash Plate Mixing menu you can increase the AILE and ELEV to give you more cyclic pitch. It might be time to dial back on the expo as well if you still have it turned way up, you will want the faster response.

If you don't know where you are going any road will take you there.

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04-01-2009 03:14 PM  9 years agoPost 3
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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Do 3D pilots use expo, or do they not?

I flew on a buddy box with Scott Gray a couple years back. As I flew his Vibe 90, it felt softer than my heli{I learned without expo}. I asked if he had expo, his reply was, '30% expo' He also added, just move the stick and it will flip. The 30% expo is on the ail and ele channels with no expo on any other channel. He stated that all his helis are set-up the same with expo.
I use 40% expo on my helis but by no means claim to be a 3D flyer. I just try to fly as extreme as I can make my heli fly.
I'm not saying that you should or should not use expo, that's the pilots choice.

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90

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04-01-2009 03:16 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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In your CCPM Swash Plate Mixing menu you can increase the AILE and ELEV to give you more cyclic pitch. It might be time to dial back on the expo as well if you still have it turned way up, you will want the faster response
What is a good starting point?

Im at 60% now, on AILE and Elevator

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-01-2009 03:20 PM  9 years agoPost 5
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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IMO it also depends how fast your servos are. The slower they are such as a cheaper sport type servo shouldn't require as much or no expo at all. Faster servos you may want to soften up the center to get rid of the touchiness feel of the cyclic.

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90

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04-01-2009 03:20 PM  9 years agoPost 6
Ktbone

rrApprentice

NH

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Measure your cyclic pitch; I think I'm running about 8*

If you don't know where you are going any road will take you there.

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04-01-2009 03:23 PM  9 years agoPost 7
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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8* is where you want cyclics for aerobatic flight.

Brian do you know how to check with this your pitch gauge?

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04-01-2009 03:28 PM  9 years agoPost 8
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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I do know how to check for pitch with my gauge, but never have. I figured I could just up the program mix untill I was satisfied though?

*EDIT* I checked my pitch of cyclics using this method:
set pitch at 0 deg at center stick.
Put blades parallel to the boom.
Put you pitch gauge on the main blades.
Now check aileron (left and right on your transmitter)

Put your blades perpendicular to the boom.
Check elevator (forward and back on trans).

Cyclic pitch is pilot preference. I run mine maxed which, depending on what machine, can be as high as 10deg. About 7-8 is an average good number for a decent cyclic rate. Just experiment by reducing or increasing your swash mix (CCPM) in the radio and fly it to see what you like. Carfull not to go to high though. Know your max on the bench first. Then measure it once your happy so you can set it up the same after the inevitable happens.

Good luck!
I have both + and -5 on both elevator and ALIE, give or take a smidge..

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-01-2009 03:41 PM  9 years agoPost 9
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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So the swash mix was at 70% on both Elev and ALIE, and I got 5's up and down, all the way around, with my cyclics pitch.

(I wasnt paying attention to my radio settings, and had it set to 70% instead of 60% at the time of checking).

So I should just adjust untill I get to 6-8, using my swash mix, right?

Its weird that 2-3 degrees will make this kind of difference...

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-01-2009 03:44 PM  9 years agoPost 10
TaleGunner

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Deer Park WA

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I fly old-school no expo I just never could get used to the mushy feeling with it on. you should try something less than 40% and as your abilities progress try it from 0-30% until it suites your flying style

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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04-01-2009 03:45 PM  9 years agoPost 11
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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fly old-school no expo I just never could get used to the mushy feeling with it on. you should try something less than 40% and as your abilities progress try it from 0-30% until it suites your flying style
As of 2 days ago, Im comfortable at 33%. So I did drop the 40% last week some time.

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-01-2009 03:47 PM  9 years agoPost 12
Ktbone

rrApprentice

NH

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So I should just adjust untill I get to 6-8, using my swash mix, right?

Yup, and 2* of cyclic is a big diff.

If you don't know where you are going any road will take you there.

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04-01-2009 03:47 PM  9 years agoPost 13
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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I have become a fan of setting values as I fly them, not on the bench. I get a good base on the bench and the rest is adjusted while flying. For example when I do a full throttle climb I listen and watch the bird. If it bogs too much then I have too much pitch. But if the motor pitch doesn't really change during the climb then I know I can add more pitch if I like. After each change I check for binding in the head by simply going to all the extremes and then I try it again. Same applies for cyclic pitch. I fly it and if it is too slow then I increase the swash settings. Again I check to make sure nothing binding, then I try it again.

Most guys live and die by the numbers but they mean nothing in reality. You need to find what works for you and the only way to do that is trial and error.

One other note: cyclic speed is tied to many things including paddle weight (includes weights), head setup, servo setup, radio setup, main blades, flybar length, and so on. You may need to change one or many of those to get the results you are looking for.

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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04-01-2009 03:53 PM  9 years agoPost 14
Flying Brian

rrElite Veteran

St. Clairsville, Ohio

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One other note: cyclic speed is tied to many things including paddle weight (includes weights), head setup, servo setup, radio setup, main blades, flybar length, and so on. You may need to change one or many of those to get the results you are looking for.
All very good points here:

I did go from the stock TT flybar, which was flimbsy and weak, to a T-rex flybar, which is about 1/4 inch shorter on each side, once the paddle are installed.

At my leval of skill, I see or feel no difference, but is there really a difference in shorter or longer flybars only?

I believe in testing and tuning in the field as well. I do get the basics key on, but somthing like cyclics rates, now that I know, I will be testing in flight...

This may be silly, and smack me if the idea really is, but can I lighten the fly bar paddels, using a drill, and drilling holes in it? TT paddles already have one whole drilled, why not make it a drill bit bigger?

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-01-2009 03:59 PM  9 years agoPost 15
Skarn

rrVeteran

Pasadena, MD

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Hey bro,

A stationary loop as you call it is really a flip. Even if your elevator cyclic was slow, if you have proper collective management, you can still pull them off without losing altitude. You need to be at zero pitch when your heli is horizontal....then add negative pitch as it flips over inverted, then back to zero when horizontal again.....

Good luck!
Skarn

It's better to burn out than to fade away...

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04-01-2009 04:01 PM  9 years agoPost 16
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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Yes the length of the flybar has a big impact on the speed of the cyclic. The rigidness does not for the most part. I can't remember how long a E325 flybar is but I would guess the Rex450SEv2 bar is longer at 220mm. Maybe try one of those?

Lightening the flybar paddles will speed things up but it is not really worth the effort. I hear the Mini SE green paddles are quicker.

OK now onto something more pertinent. The Mini head is adjustable. How do you have yours setup?

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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04-01-2009 04:04 PM  9 years agoPost 17
Flying Brian

rrElite Veteran

St. Clairsville, Ohio

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Thanks for the tip!!

I have tried several set ups on the simulator I have, and to be honest, and this is just with the sim mind you, I find doing a tight "flip" with more pitch is easier for me, and seems less likly to crash, if it does get scrued in the air, or takes to long for me to actully do it.

I have it down pretty darn good on the sim, but still havent tried in the air. My cyclics are really flat right now, and it would take some serious skills to make it happen while having a flat or less pitch in a tighter fourm, for me that is...

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-01-2009 04:07 PM  9 years agoPost 18
TaleGunner

rrElite Veteran

Deer Park WA

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but can I lighten the fly bar paddels, using a drill, and drilling holes in it?
Yes but dont without a cnc machine it would be very dificult to get them perfect. you can however buy a set of CY stubs thats what I fly.

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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04-01-2009 04:08 PM  9 years agoPost 19
TaleGunner

rrElite Veteran

Deer Park WA

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BTW we need to change your user name to simmin brian

So what do you think of the simm??

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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04-01-2009 04:11 PM  9 years agoPost 20
Flying Brian

rrElite Veteran

St. Clairsville, Ohio

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OK now onto something more pertinent. The Mini head is adjustable. How do you have yours setup?
For starters I have metal wash out arms, and a metal washout base. I have only Normal mode, and stunt mode in my JR6102 TX. I run 100 linear Throttle, and have been bouncing back and fourth with my pitch settings, meaning, running a linear pitch curve, and running a backwards "s" curve, if Im thinking about that right, but anyways, you know what I mean. I can't find much difference in either, but the linear curve seems a bit more pitchy, and even both top and bottom.

I have my cyclics currently on the bench set at 5 degrees up and down, at 70% in the swash mix menu. I run +10 and negetive 10, with my main blade pitch.

I have the rudder set up about as fast as I like it, meaning I can go at it slow and smooth, or super fast.

Ummm, ?

"I just don't Listen" "

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Setting up for 3D flying
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