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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 90 › What exactly is mechanical mixing vs. ccpm?
04-01-2009 12:54 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Quicktoy

rrApprentice

Venice, FL USA

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I know the raptors run mechanical mixing and the rexs run ccpm if Im not mistaken. What exactly is the difference? Sorry if its a newbie question but I am a newbie and just trying to shed some light at my lack of knowledge in this new to me sport

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04-01-2009 01:00 PM  9 years agoPost 2
Saint728

rrProfessor

Honolulu, Hawaii

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Mechanical CCPM mixing one servo does each job on the swash plate e.g. one servo does elevator, one does aileron and one does pitch. On an electronic CCPM all three servos take up the load of the swash plate, e.g. aileron, elevator and pitch move the swash plate at the same time. So all three servos move the swash plate on full positive collective and negative collective. I'm sure someone can explain it better or correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the basic concept of eCCPM vs mCCPM.

Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

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04-01-2009 01:30 PM  9 years agoPost 3
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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That pretty much sums it up.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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04-01-2009 03:05 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Quicktoy

rrApprentice

Venice, FL USA

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so lets say you bought a trex and a raptor, how would you go about setting them up differently?

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04-01-2009 03:37 PM  9 years agoPost 5
Billebob

rrVeteran

Tim-buck-2

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Well you could make the Trex fly like a scale machine and the Raptor fly 3-D, you could do the reverse, or you could do anything in between. You'll need better bait than that
so lets say you bought a trex and a raptor, how would you go about setting them up differently?
BB

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04-01-2009 04:00 PM  9 years agoPost 6
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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You really should look at two machines next to each other, and it will make sense.

The difference is how the servos are arranged and how the radio is set up.

You can set either helicopter up to fly tame, scale, or wild.

In a CCPM heli the mixing is done in the radio via the software, on a mechanical mix bird, theres only one servo for each function, mechanically its actually a bit more complicated but its free from control interaction.

They both do the same thing, just different approaches.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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04-01-2009 07:57 PM  9 years agoPost 7
xxcysxx

rrKey Veteran

Baltimore, MD - USA

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let me give this a try.
CCPM is an acronym for cyclic colective pitch mixing. (i think this technique was invented by mike mas, though i will stand corrected on this one.) the leter "m" prior to that stand for mechanical. so that's "mechanical cyclic colective pitch mixing."
the swashplate was known to play as a role for controlling the main rotor swash, the colective was optional, though it was controled by a rod either inside the hollow mainshaft or outside a solid main shaft. the mechanical washout assembly is not around. this design was popular on the flapping head system. however, on a solid head axle it was not practical to make an make an efficient colective system this way. then swashplate will have to play in the role of controlling both the rotor swash and the collective. the washout assembly then came along and was included to compensate for the lateral movement of the swashplate. this is all done to accomplish an efficient collective system on a solid axle head. at this same time computerised radio was first class, and radios dint have ccpm function. a mechanical system below the swashplate has to be made to control both the rotor swash and collective from the swashplate. so it can be used with ordinary airplane radio.
soon later the ccpm function came along on most computer radios and more helicopters are being made without mechanical mixer, as this does reduce cost and design complexity.

now, sophisticated electronic sensors are maturing. pretty soon you will see post like "flybar vs. flybarless" i think by not having a flybar will reduce design complexity and production cost. and as a result lowering kit cost. or even crash cost.

some of the helicopter that was not ccpm was the kyosho concept series, the thunder tiger imperio... which was all a design work of shigetada taya. all the raptor series was design by him as well.

some of the helicopter that uses the mechanical cyclic collective pitch mixing are the ma pro2k, hirobo freya and evo, raptors, century hawk...

Tam

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05-06-2009 04:32 AM  9 years agoPost 8
Rafier

rrNovice

Washington - USA

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Wow. Great explanation and I even understood it. Thank you very much. I had an option for the CCPM or Mechanical Pitch Mixing and will now go with CCPM. Thanks again.

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05-06-2009 06:03 AM  9 years agoPost 9
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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let me give this a try.
CCPM is an acronym for cyclic colective pitch mixing. (i think this technique was invented by mike mas, though i will stand corrected on this one.) the leter "m" prior to that stand for mechanical. so that's "mechanical cyclic colective pitch mixing."
the swashplate was known to play as a role for controlling the main rotor swash, the colective was optional, though it was controled by a rod either inside the hollow mainshaft or outside a solid main shaft. the mechanical washout assembly is not around. this design was popular on the flapping head system. however, on a solid head axle it was not practical to make an make an efficient colective system this way. then swashplate will have to play in the role of controlling both the rotor swash and the collective. the washout assembly then came along and was included to compensate for the lateral movement of the swashplate. this is all done to accomplish an efficient collective system on a solid axle head. at this same time computerised radio was first class, and radios dint have ccpm function. a mechanical system below the swashplate has to be made to control both the rotor swash and collective from the swashplate. so it can be used with ordinary airplane radio.
soon later the ccpm function came along on most computer radios and more helicopters are being made without mechanical mixer, as this does reduce cost and design complexity.

now, sophisticated electronic sensors are maturing. pretty soon you will see post like "flybar vs. flybarless" i think by not having a flybar will reduce design complexity and production cost. and as a result lowering kit cost. or even crash cost.

some of the helicopter that was not ccpm was the kyosho concept series, the thunder tiger imperio... which was all a design work of shigetada taya. all the raptor series was design by him as well.

some of the helicopter that uses the mechanical cyclic collective pitch mixing are the ma pro2k, hirobo freya and evo, raptors, century hawk...
It's a good thing there isn't an English teacher nearby. I thought I spoke the language but I'm starting to have second thoughts after reading this.

My advice would be to do a search as there is literally tons of debate on this subject. Pull up a chair, get a sandwich, a large double latte and settle in. It's going to be a long read.

CCPM is a software function only and has nothing to do with the swashplate rising or falling. Mechanical collective is just that, a mechanical means to induce collective pitch into the rotor head. Mechanical pitch machines separate the collective pitch from roll and nick(fore/aft)cyclic functions via discrete servos for each function while CCPM machine interpolate the function of collective pitch, roll and nick (fore/aft) cyclic functions by using 2 or more servos directly connected to the swashplate.

Just because the swashplate moves up and down doesn't make it CCPM. Software in the radios is what makes a system CCPM.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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05-06-2009 12:01 PM  9 years agoPost 10
S Bell

rrApprentice

Nova Scotia Canada

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Pretty simple when you think about a rising/falling swashplate. The swashplate control inputs are either mixed in the radio software or mixed in the control linkages before the swashplate. The swashplate and everything after it is the same. That is why the "e" and "m" were implemented.

As someone clearly explained the antique non rising and falling system has the swashplate controls fully separated-the swashplate is controlled by the cyclic only. The collective control has its own single purpose independant mechanism which circumvents the swashplate.

mCCPM mixers were in existance before successful radio controlled models were invented and often employed in the full scale stuff. The technical explaination problem lay with modelers of days gone by who had no idea of aircraft terms, so they invented their own terms through ignorance and necessity.(what's a fellow to do ?) Even today you often hear the cyclic referred to as elevator and aileron.So long as the concepts are understood call it what you like.

I have no problem understanding all the posts in this thread and everyone's point of view. As for which is better, one has transient control interaction and one doesn't, both can be set up equally aggressive or docile. There are people who will tell you differently and this is usually because they either have a poorly designed system or setup, maybe both. Pick your poison, shop around and enjoy.

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05-06-2009 07:21 PM  9 years agoPost 11
holzback

rrKey Veteran

noblesville IN United States

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and dont be discouraged by all the other companies using eccpm and not thunder tiger, i love how my raptor performs as much as my trex, it is actually a raptor 90 3d and it is a very true, crisp heli. that will perform great.

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05-13-2009 02:35 AM  9 years agoPost 12
dbldins

rrVeteran

Nicholasville,Ky.

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Post being read I have jr radios for my TREX(jr/xp652) and RAPPY30(jr/X388s). One has cp settings the other doesn't. The manual should explain the mixing per channel if I'm not mistaken? Mixing is the alterior option to ccpm yes? I just got the rappy30 and am going to put it up this weekend weather permiting. Reputable seller says everything is ready to go I just want to be as knowledgeable as possible is case of an oops! Powering up everything seems in order i just have an anxiety issue with learning a new system of setting up a radio but I've done it once, Im sure I can do it again

I wish I still flew!!!

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05-13-2009 04:54 AM  9 years agoPost 13
Saint728

rrProfessor

Honolulu, Hawaii

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Post being read I have jr radios for my TREX(jr/xp652) and RAPPY30(jr/X388s). One has cp settings the other doesn't. The manual should explain the mixing per channel if I'm not mistaken? Mixing is the alterior option to ccpm yes? I just got the rappy30 and am going to put it up this weekend weather permiting. Reputable seller says everything is ready to go I just want to be as knowledgeable as possible is case of an oops! Powering up everything seems in order i just have an anxiety issue with learning a new system of setting up a radio but I've done it once, Im sure I can do it again
Why don't you use the same transmitter for both helicopters?

Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

Check the hotties in my Gallery
http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/9019/?all=photo

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05-13-2009 11:28 AM  9 years agoPost 14
dbldins

rrVeteran

Nicholasville,Ky.

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Saint728 I guess I will when I get the x388s figured out as far as setting up the collective. As I stated it doesnt have the cp2,3,6 settings so I was questioning the mixing issue. Is mixing what I'll use to control the collective? With work and other activities I haven't had time to read the manual for the x388s.

I wish I still flew!!!

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