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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › GV-1? Sevo? WTF??
03-30-2009 02:12 PM  9 years agoPost 1
pgkevet

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Wales

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short version

Any known issues with changing tx Gov rpm settings with engine at idle?

Long version

Re-built P gasser.. GV-1 7014rx 2.4 futaba and 12FG, stator gator. Range checked..from further than usual (since you all were pessimistic about my steel electronics plate) and all around.. no probs 40 paces range test mode.

Fired up GV-1 reading around 600rpm at tick-over. Gently increased throttle, felt/heard gov kicking in.. gentle lift-off to test everything. Flicked to idle up and RPM/Headspeed incraese, dropped again when flicked to idle down. Landed , played with governor on/off switch then throttle hold/cut. All worked as it should.

Relaxed buttocks, coffee, fag, calm down and a splash of fuel in the beast.. quarter tank only. Intention to fire up and check governed headspeed setting against sky-tach. Now set my governed headspeed for 1500RPM using 14T pinion and looking up the maingear T number rather than counting (88). GR=6.28

Fired the beast up again.. brought throttle up to hearing the gov take over and lowered while governeor obviously working.. tached it at 1200. To be fair taching it myself on the ground may not be that accurate.. ain't gonna reduce control for more than moments.

Brought throttle to idle. While idling I incraesed the governed headspeed in the menu on the tx to 1550. Ran it up..gov kicks in ...hovered a bit, landed to tach again.. throttle will not back off fully

Tried thottle cut, governor off switch, tried fiddling with thorttle leaver and dropping the throttle trim..and all four. Can hear/feel throttle increase if I take off throttle cut or move throttle but won't back off more than a very very very fast idle. Tried bouncing throttle but not too high incase it might jam wide open.

Ended up about 1 notch of throttle to take any strain off the servo and waiting .. 15 mins for the tank to run dry.

At that time the throttle servo wasn't responding to tx commands. Switched off and no binding, gear noises etc or stiffness..No canopy interferences.

Switched on both tx then heli and everything appears to respond normally. But I didn't fire it up again!

pgk

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03-31-2009 01:18 AM  9 years agoPost 2
classic

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Sounds like a bad servo.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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03-31-2009 01:30 AM  9 years agoPost 3
bosshoss

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Chicago, IL

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Yes, eliminate the servo first. If you have a servo tester , take off the arm and work it in auto mode..

install a remote ignition kill, test again. If it locks up again, you will be able to kill the motor,....then check the GV1 screen for max rpm and the SW pt screen . Dont turn off the GV1 when it fails, check it out before turning it off. Go through the screens , all of them , sens, escpecially.

Why Hover a Yak, when a Heli does it better?

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03-31-2009 03:06 AM  9 years agoPost 4
Excalibur

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PG, what throttle servo are you using? (forgive me if I missed it somewhere)

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

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03-31-2009 03:58 AM  9 years agoPost 5
jschenck

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La Vista, NE.

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I had a similar issue a couple of years ago with different equipment - it was a TJPro running a Nitro. Once the gov. took over it would not let go, unfortunantly for me it was at something like 2300 RPM and a full tank. I ran around the sky for an exhausting 20 minutes or so until it finally ran out of fuel at full throttle, full collective trying to keep the engine in a reasonable RPM. Folks around me thought I was showing off how long a tank of 15% fuel would run, just being a sky hog.

It was because I hadn't re calibrated the governor after some change in either servo or radio. it wasn't seeing the throttle cut as a low enough throttle setting to disengage. Perhaps dropping the throttle trim may have got it?

May not be the case with your GV1 but a thought. The remote magneto ground would be a nice option with the gasser in this case.

Was the throttle servo moving at all during this? Sounds like it was changing position when going from throttle hold to 'normal' mode. Does sound like a radio setup or gov. setup issue to me, not servo.

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03-31-2009 07:17 AM  9 years agoPost 6
pgkevet

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Wales

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Servo is 9252

Had already decided to fit my 42pecent killswitch before any more attempts.

There was definately changes in rpm associated with what I was doing on the tx during this.. just wouldn't shut off. Total guess but headspeed around the normal you get at 1/4 stick position.

I'd be suprised if a simple servo problem since it responded like normal after turning off/on and gears feel fine. 9252's usually strip if they jam.

The only change from the first test goes was me adjusting the RPM while it idled. It tends to make me think it's an FG12 thing when the second GOV channel is also used since I can do that on an align gyro without issues on my nitro.

Keep the ideas coming

pgk

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03-31-2009 03:10 PM  9 years agoPost 7
rbort

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Franklin, MA - USA

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Did you
ENABLE stick switch in the gv-1 screen? By default its inhibited and with that you cannot disenguage the gv-1 with the throttle hold switch or throttle stick down.

I know its probably not your problem, but just a thought that came to mind so I typed it.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4220 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3310 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1618 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 473 flts

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03-31-2009 05:30 PM  9 years agoPost 8
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Ended up about 1 notch of throttle to take any strain off the servo and waiting .. 15 mins for the tank to run dry.
Only suggestions for next time:

What would happen if you went to the end points and lowered the throttle with the radio?
What would happen if you put the GV-1 back to 1500RPM?

Simulation: Try using simulation when testing out new equipment. This is best done prior to installation to check out responses. The input can be simulated with a dremel or some other variable speed motor in the approximate range of speed. Use an extended pointer on the servo against a protractor to see the motion better. Once your confidence is gained that the system works as you expect then install it in the heli. Flying to "test" is just a very dangerous game that is all too common in this hobby.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-31-2009 06:47 PM  9 years agoPost 9
pgkevet

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Wales

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What would happen if you went to the end points and lowered the throttle with the radio?
At the time I asked for advice from an experienced plank guy and we considered that and decide against in case is stripped servo gears that were OK and made things worse.. sinec i had only put a splssh of gas in.
What would happen if you put the GV-1 back to 1500RPM?
something I hadn't considered. I have found one genuine bug in the FG12 software so i don't discount it.

(bug: If you switch on tx and use current model you get choice of transmit yes/no. Say no and can go to range check. BUT If you say Yes, change model, say NO to transmit and go to range check then it shows it is but Rx will not initialise - have to keep that new model selected and switch tx off and on again)
Simulation: Try using simulation when testing out new equipment. This is best done prior to installation to check out responses. The input can be simulated with a dremel or some other variable speed motor in the approximate range of speed.
Not sure how you can do that with the stator gater unless you have access to the start shaft, plug out etc. Would have to use a magnet sensor and 'assume' stator gater will work. Also not sure how you would then asses correct throttle responses by GV-1 ????

The point here is that I did check it 'reasonably' in the sense of confirming all tx values against GOV responses on it's screen and RPM readings at idle speeds when can access the GV-1's screen.. and then made the next steps in a reasonable way.. except for a killswitch.

I suppose removal of the head, heli strapped down etc could work... but then can't run the engine at real speeds without load. Put on headloaders and paddles and use a telescope?

pgk

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03-31-2009 06:48 PM  9 years agoPost 10
pgkevet

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Wales

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ENABLE stick switch in the gv-1 screen? By default its inhibited and with that you cannot disenguage the gv-1 with the throttle hold switch or throttle stick down.
Followed your recommendations to the letter..hidden menu too.

pgk

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04-01-2009 05:52 PM  9 years agoPost 11
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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At the time I asked for advice from an experienced plank guy and we considered that and decide against in case is stripped servo gears that were OK and made things worse.
If it didn’t work you would immediately put the setting back where it was and try something else. Once a servo jams you have no idea where that position is anyway. There is no way of knowing if you leave it alone that it is not in a high current load position already.

If a person goes flat line on the table and you know there is no hope you still try the paddles don’t you? Never stop trying…
Not sure how you can do that with the stator
If you are not sure how to simulate the pulse train for the stator input you can use head loaders and just observe the reactions. Keep in mind that ever set of blades is a head loader. All you have to do is program 0 pitch for the entire range of the collective. A simple kill switch is a ground wire to the spark plug. Once the heli is restrained all things are possible.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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04-01-2009 08:56 PM  9 years agoPost 12
classic

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If a person goes flat line on the table and you know there is no hope you still try the paddles don’t you? Never stop trying…
Thats only in the movies acebird.

When the heart is stopped that is asystole- no electrical activity/flat line. No shock.

Ventricular Fibrillation- This "dysrhythmia" has unorganized electrical activity. Which means there is still some electrical activity present/not flat line, then you can Shock.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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04-02-2009 04:31 PM  9 years agoPost 13
pgkevet

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Wales

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..and in te movies most patients hit with the paddles recover..in reality onyl about 5% come back and in the avergae ER with fkuids all over the place a small propotion of operator end up shocked and needing a hit to get them back!!...let alone the ones with a fried line cross the chest where the spark took a direct route!.. scary toy!!

..but we digress. I'm stick in a primitive part of the world were 'net access in a hotel room seems impossible....savages!.. and can't play helis for a few days until the conference ends..

pgk

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04-02-2009 05:53 PM  9 years agoPost 14
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Thats only in the movies acebird.
I stand corrected ... maybe.

Some paddles are used for pacing which can keep the heart pumping whether it wants to or not. Death is not declared until the brain has no activity.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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04-02-2009 06:02 PM  9 years agoPost 15
classic

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I stand corrected ... maybe.
Wrong again. Look it up. Flat line~NO shock. Period.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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04-02-2009 10:01 PM  9 years agoPost 16
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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http://www.pacemakerclub.com/public...0939/content.do
Comment posted by maryanne on 2009-01-06 16:06.
this makes me smile.... when I see things like this know people have watched way to many ER shows....or ER drama shows...."flatline" by definition is when the ECG shows no electrical activity. That can be cause by a sinus arrest,complete heart block., or of course the person has died.....some people with sinus arrythmia can go from a 1 degree AVB to a complete block which of course would show a flat line...but that does not mean they are dead it's just that the monitor is unable to detect a rhythm, this can also be known as a sinus arrest, sinus pause....this can happen up to 6 or more seconds....generally anything greater than 6 seconds needs immediate intervention.
Just because you flat line doesn’t mean you are dead. Some defib equipment can also be used for external pacing, which is not shock.

Look it up…

As I implied you don’t give up.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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04-02-2009 11:14 PM  9 years agoPost 17
classic

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needs immediate intervention
Thats chest compressions and drugs, Not shock. Not till you get V-fib.
YOU look it up.

I never said they were dead or to give up on them, I Just said that "you don't shock them"

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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04-26-2009 03:41 PM  9 years agoPost 18
carpman

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Spain

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Thought I would continue this GV1 thread rather than start another...

Completed running in the first gallon on a Spectra G and decided to set up the GV1 on it. Followed all set ups from Raja for the hidden menu etc...

Anyway I managed to test it today in between all the fowl weather with the main aim of just using it to try and fine tune my "ungoverned" curves, in general it all functions fine.

What I am noticing is that going from governor off to on it takes the motor a good 3-6 seconds to get up to speed. Remember at the moment I am doing this to try and get my curves set up perfect. Turning the governor off I get an instant power change.

Question here really is does it take longer for a Zenoah motor to react to a required increase. I fly governors on all my Nitro helis and the reaction to switching them on and off is instant?

...or as I have still not finished fine tuning the engine could it be that I am still rich on the low needle which is causing this?

I have been running in with a fairly modest normal curve of 12,20,30,50,100 (standard 231PUH) using the linear set up of the throttle linkage, wow this beast comes alive with governor on a 1650rpm headspeed it's far better than what I was running in with!

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04-27-2009 04:44 AM  9 years agoPost 19
rbort

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Franklin, MA - USA

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GV-1
When you turn the gv-1 off the servo goes right to the throttle curve position. When you turn it on and gv-1 looks at the headspeed and adjusts the throttle servo from the throttle curve position to the speed you selected. I think there is a delay for adjusting up and down in speeds in the hidden menu settings. Just wait for it, its not a rush for me.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4220 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3310 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1618 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 473 flts

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04-27-2009 08:38 AM  9 years agoPost 20
carpman

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Spain

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Hi Raja

If that is how it's supposed to behave I am happy, just wanted to check that this is normal behaviour for the GV1. It makes it harder using it as a "poor man's" tach when it does this I was just trying to match up normal and governed headspeeds.

On my nitros with the Align governor you hear the change instantly...

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