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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 50 › Venom Micro Temp Onboard Gauge Battery Life
04-24-2009 12:58 AM  9 years agoPost 21
aadams1278

rrApprentice

Wilson, NC - USA

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even if the backplate falls withing the 'touch' limits, the temperature of the head during flight may have been all the way up to 180*C at some time during flight.
this is true, but of course, NOBODY has ever done the touch test while the heli was in flight, which means that every time this test is done, it has been hovered and landed PRIOR to being tested. meaning that the 5-7 count test is allowing for that little bit of cooling.

i want to go back to what tolla said here
Now,(today) an actual cylinder head temp reading of around 150*C (say 332F) will give me a count of 5-7 on the backplate right after landing.
I think, however, that the motor is running too cool at 150*C as I have way too much bogging.
if i follow that right, you're thinking, "even though the temp is X, it's still too rich"

from some of my other buddies that help me with my heli and have been doing this for a LONG time, they NEVER use temps to tune. this is true for a LOT of people, which is why i think we're having such a hard time finding "good" information on temps for tuning. these guys, pros included, never use temps to tune and their engines aren't hurting because of it.

the method of tuning that i hear of a lot is the full collective climbout method. where you would go full collective from a hover and watch and listen how it climbs. land, and lean one click and repeat until the performance peaks out. then richen 2 or 3 clicks and this should be a "good" mixture setting.

after you do that, the temp "doesn't matter" because you've "properly" set the mixture. this is why i say that. first, there are SO many variables involved in what would make the temps vary. ambient temperature, elevation (air density), engine load, cooling airflow, glow plug, and nitro content.

back to tolla's comment about it being too rich. the day i had the 270 temp, i was 1 click lean of the point where it was bogging during simple tumbles. this tells me that there's something other than the mixture that's making it hotter than usual. then the very next day my temps were back under control and i could lean 4 clicks. so i'm starting to realize the temps alone can't necessarily tell you if it's tuned right.

i'd like to hear from onequick96gt and tolla and greyeagle on what fuel you're using, glow plug you use, what outside temps you usually fly in, and what your elevation is so we can get some more detailed comparisons. i am using an os 50 hyper (i'm guessing we all are), in raptor 50 titan with stock fan, carbon gohbee 620mm blades, 15% cool power, and OS 8 glow plug. i usually have my temps (Max inflight) in the 220 to 240 area, but i have had them as high as 270. they're often at 180 when i land though if i'm just flying circuits/not aggresively.

my most recent advice has been to not freak out about the temps, but just keep track of the ambient temp, humidity, and what my engine temps were when tuned by the climbout method, and as the seasons change, i will be able to look back and see what trends the engine temps made during weather changes.

what do you guys think about all that?

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04-24-2009 02:04 AM  9 years agoPost 22
twoolley08

rrApprentice

michigan

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sounds pretty good, but for the temp where is the best place for the sensor? on the head or right by the sleeve

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04-24-2009 02:43 AM  9 years agoPost 23
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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My spec's :
I run the cheap stuff ! Get it for a great price Byron 10% / 18% oil then dope it with 1.5 OZ of castor oil - Laxative I also run pretty rich.

My elevation is below Denver and above the Missiour River I think around 1000ft above Sea Level

Head speed around 1600 but I prefer it hot around 1850 +

Motor is not a O.S. - But a massive Heat sink of a thing /weighing almost a full Lb. Bigger cank bearing /bigger nose bearing.
Its the ugley betty - Evil Evo .NX.52 never gone thru a bearing. Massive crank. I'd buy another - but I have did a few things to the carb, nothing serious.

Also running a foam filter after I inhaled a few clutch lineing's

Plug is a Enya #3

Had to trim out the front air dam around the head to stuff it in their, and also added a air dam above the tank at the rear to stop the wasted air from blowing back over the tank.

Fan is stock / Bell is Titan with two cooling holes in the top.

Run a auxilliary / pinion to spin my alternator.

Standard Titian pipe : I feel it's a bit small for the volume of the Evo as I can hear the motor push thru before it comes on the pipe.

C- Volt on board digital monitor / to see the voltage produced by the alternator

Venom : K -wire in direct contact with the cylinder wall at the first available cylinder fin / diode opposing the muff.

Ambient Temps : ANy where from 40 F to 90F
Humidity can get up to 90% here and worse at night

Cylinder - Had it as high one tine as 347 !!!
Average : 240 to 260
Cool down : Seen as low as around 80 - The Cylinder !!!
Average idle with the inferometer - 140 - 180
Back plate - 90's and lower.

greyeagle

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04-24-2009 04:19 PM  9 years agoPost 24
AaronJohnson

rrElite Veteran

mason,MI

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I am close to sea level.

Youngblood performance 30%. OS#8 plug.

Stock Vibe 50 cooling, OS hyper obviously

Carbsmart at 110C. (about 230F) Probe between 2nd and 3rd fins. Has awesome power. The needle usually runs around 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 turns out.

I run the MP5 SB pipe.

headspeeds are 1850 and 2000. (16,100 and 17,400 engine rpms)

Temps vary from 40F to 95F

Engine is on it's 10th gallon. Original rear bearing.

If I load it down good and then check where the head meets the block with an infrered temp gun I show a max of 195 F. (on the block) Backplate test is always good.

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04-25-2009 06:56 AM  9 years agoPost 25
Tolla

rrApprentice

Cape Town, South Africa

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aadams1278
We've got a long weekend and I'm hoping the weather will play ball. I plan to test different plugs straight after each other also to see what effect this has on temperatures, given that all ambient conditions will be the same.I will be making notes as I go.
I have two sensors mounted, one in between the fins but pushed right up against the combustion chamber. The other still under the plug.Later I plan to move the one under the plu to onto the baseplate, lets see what the actual baseplate temp is during flight compared to head temp.
My original concern was that my motor seems to run hotter than others. There must be a maximum temp after which engine damage will occur.So thatt's really my interest: what is the maximum allowable head temp before engine damage occurs.
Since we are into winter now and the cooling air blowing over the fins will have a big effect, this is a long term project that will extend into summer when those scorching days are again with i
us.
Raptor 50
600mm glass blades
Home brew fuel, 15% Nitro,7% castor and 7% synthetic blend
at sea level
Plugs various to test: all O.S.

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04-25-2009 07:06 AM  9 years agoPost 26
aadams1278

rrApprentice

Wilson, NC - USA

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There must be a maximum temp after which engine damage will occur.So thatt's really my interest
me too! seems that nobody knows this number though. i actually did consider starting another thread asking if anyone had ever damaged an engine because it overheated and had an onboard temp gauge running when it happened so they could let us know the temp.

there's CLEARLY multiple variables even between the guys that have been posting in this thread that would make our temps differ. among the most obvious, is the location of the temp probe.

we are just getting into summer now, and i'm planning to keep this going as the weather gets hotter. today was 80 for me and i leaned 4 clicks from where i had the mixture set, did a climbout (performance increased), and richened 2 clicks and flew that way. my max temp was 266 and the backplate test was pretty close to 5 - 7 seconds. (i'm between the 2nd and 3rd fin) with this setting, i got 241 just hovering around. at the end of the day i decided it was a little too hot so i richened one more click but didn't fly again. this is pretty consistent with the day i got the 270 temp so it's starting to look like, FOR ME, 270-ish temps are OK. i may try to aim around or just below this temp, but we'll see what happens when it hits the 90s (it's also very humid here btw)

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04-25-2009 11:20 PM  9 years agoPost 27
aadams1278

rrApprentice

Wilson, NC - USA

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same mixture settings today gave me 267 max temp. temps at landing were in the 220s. however, the backplate test was a little hot i think. only about 4 - 5 seconds before i couldn't stand it anymore. then again, the outside temp was about 90. still right on the verge of bogging though. just scares me to be getting these significantly higher temps and give it a click leaner.

i talked with a retired engineer that is a member of our club and he said when he was working, that anytime they measured temperatures, they had to add in the ambient air temperature to their readings. he said there is a scale that tells depending on what the outside air temp is, whether you should add exactly that temperature or some more or less when comparing your readings.

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05-08-2009 01:04 AM  9 years agoPost 28
aadams1278

rrApprentice

Wilson, NC - USA

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i took my engine out of my heli and took the backplate off to remove the fan/clutch assembly to have it sent to OS for warranty repair/replacement. i stripped out backplate screw threads (inside the crankcase) when i first got it and someone just suggested that i send it in for replacement/repair under warranty. i think i had been having some air/fuel leaking through there which COULD explain my higher temps. even still, here are some pictures of the inside of my engine and to my untrained eye, it looks like it's in great condition after 97 flights and 12.5 hours flight time.

so far my mixture has been 37 clicks (1 turn and 5 clicks) +/- 3 clicks throughout the time i've been measuring temps and posting to this thread. i think my max temp ever has been 286F.

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05-08-2009 01:12 AM  9 years agoPost 29
ZAC ATTACK

rrKey Veteran

Hamilton Ontario, CANADA

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You can re-tap those holes if you know the proper size tap and proper pitch.It will save alot of hassle sending it back.You could even go a little bigger and re-tap for the size your moving up-too!!

MAAC#77677 Medicated daily for your protection

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05-08-2009 01:24 AM  9 years agoPost 30
aadams1278

rrApprentice

Wilson, NC - USA

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yeah, i dont have any tools to do that with and even if i did, i have absolutely ZERO experience doing that kind of thing. i sure don't want to "learn" on my $200 heli engine. if it's covered under warranty, i could come out of the deal with a new engine though.

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05-08-2009 02:06 AM  9 years agoPost 31
twoolley08

rrApprentice

michigan

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yeah, i dont have any tools to do that with and even if i did, i have absolutely ZERO experience doing that kind of thing. i sure don't want to "learn" on my $200 heli engine. if it's covered under warranty, i could come out of the deal with a new engine though.
if they cant repair it they'll probley replace it

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05-08-2009 11:04 PM  9 years agoPost 32
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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What type of Fuel ???
Looks fresh as a daisey / what Elxir or fuel are you running ??? with 97 flight's on it ? I'll have what your having !

greyeagle

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05-08-2009 11:15 PM  9 years agoPost 33
aadams1278

rrApprentice

Wilson, NC - USA

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Looks fresh as a daisey
THAT is excellent to hear from someone that's been in this a lot longer than I have. i was especially getting worried that i was damaging the engine with the high temps.

i use good ol' cool power 15% heli. no after run oil. the power satisfies me and i have no intention of going up to 30%...just can't stand the thought of near $40 a gallon. it's bad enough at $20 for how long (short) it lasts.

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05-08-2009 11:35 PM  9 years agoPost 34
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Pretty Sweet !
Wish we could get it here but sources are a touch limited

Great product and standards are strict. Used to runn "alot" of it. Then chief decided to make his own " the good ole days " I know they also hold their QC to very strict standards. It's also been excellent for me. Used to run the straight synthetic in my Rossies but again due to my supply It'd be special order. I don't have the in's to get the Really good deal anymore

The 10% blend were running has no performance issues what so every, for what were doing, and since we seem to be going thru it like crazey, and price is right - I elected to runn one fuel I could run "every thing" on.. and then were adding a tincture of laxative to it - I hate to go back to boiling em in the winter but I hate purchasing bearings and pistons.

From the look's of it I'd guess it's Omega. Well done !

greyeagle

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05-08-2009 11:42 PM  9 years agoPost 35
aadams1278

rrApprentice

Wilson, NC - USA

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From the look's of it I'd guess it's Omega. Well done !
well, Omega is the castor/synthetic version of Morgan Fuels. Cool Power is their synthetic only fuel. so i'm not completely following you on that last post.

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