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Other › Tested Out New Scorpion 4020 and X-Era 4025
03-30-2009 06:18 PM  9 years agoPost 61
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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CNC Addict,

I REALLY wanted an Xera for my Logo 500 however it soon became apparent that your 4025/2Y-830 is not going to work as well as an 1100kV motor in this application.

Are you thinking about or planning on releasing one?

If not, I'm going to have to choose another brand which is not as well made as yours. I don't mind paying a premium for a premium motor.

Dave

Diabolo 700UL / Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Oxy 2 / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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03-30-2009 06:33 PM  9 years agoPost 62
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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yeh! 6S its ok, but 8S logo 500 would be where this motor will shine , and for a mirror finish, 10S the 830 KV will be a power house

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03-30-2009 06:51 PM  9 years agoPost 63
CNCAddict

rrApprentice

Newport, N.C.

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I'm working on a 4020/2y 1050, but it maybe a little over a month to get any of these made. I wish I could move faster...but at the moment this is proving a challenge.

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03-30-2009 07:44 PM  9 years agoPost 64
Big Fil

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Santa Rosa, CA

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CNC Addict, IMO i don't think the Xera is ugly but if I were to change anything it'd be change the blue to silver or even clear anodizing. Reason is i've always felt neutral colors don't grow old. This is just my opinion mind you but the blue brings back memeories of the the dreaded Align 450 blue which in the case of the V2 you had no choice. The gold of the scorpions always turned me off for the same reason. When I had a choice on my 450 I went with the MA branded version since it was black with polished caps. Funny how after a while you get a bunch of different components and next thing you know the heli looks like a rainbow of fruit flavor. Rainbows have never been my thing if you know what I mean.

Other minor gripe I would have is the lettering on the top doesn't really do the motor justice.

All this being said it does come down to performance with looks being secondary. Obviously neither at this point would stop me from buying an Xera which i'm set to do in the next couple of weeks here for my Logo 600 build.............if I could just make up my damn mind between the 4025 and 4030 now.

As far as the box goes I could give a crap what the box looks like as long as it protects the goodies inside. I definately wouldn't want to pay more for a pretty box that's going to get trashed.

Keep up the good work on the motors BTW.

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03-30-2009 08:35 PM  9 years agoPost 65
LJS

rrKey Veteran

Minnesota, USA

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Hi Fil,

If you want my opinion, I'd go with the 4030. It comes with the 6 mm shaft which eliminates the need for the counter bearing. That's a BIG plus in my book. Also, the 4030 weighs only 1.7 oz more than the 4025. And it should have more power, run cooler, and last longer being a bigger motor. The heli balances fine with the heavier motor.

The only drawback is a slightly shorter flight. I have my TRex with 4025 calculated to 5:30 of high powered 3D. That's a pretty long flight with 8S 4200s. My 10S 4500s should be over 6 minutes. I will be able to give you definite flight times in about two weeks when I test fly her.

I'll be painting the Logo 600 this weekend.

Good luck with your decision.
LJS

Logo 600 VBar, 10S
TRex 600E VBar, 8S
Logo 500 VBar, 6S
TRex 600ESP, 6S

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03-31-2009 01:17 AM  9 years agoPost 66
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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CNCAddict,

It's good to know there's a new 4020/2Y 1050 however, is there a reason you're not upping it to 1100? It's been said that a 1200-1250 would be ideal in this application so I'm just curious why not at least 1100?

A little over a month wait isn't too bad but I assume that's just for production. Therefore it could take 6-8 weeks or more to actually have one in hand.

If that's the case then I'll probably have to start with something else as I'd planned on having my Logo 500 up in 2-3 weeks.

Dave

Diabolo 700UL / Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Oxy 2 / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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03-31-2009 01:31 AM  9 years agoPost 67
CNCAddict

rrApprentice

Newport, N.C.

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Fillmoe, I can change colors easy. The blue is actually a PITA since it's not a normal color. If I change, it will either be silver or black to make it easy.

LJS, all the motors can be purchased with 5, 6, or 8mm shafts. I have them here ready to sell. Wish I could say the same about the motors

Dave, I'm at 2y already. There aren't a lot of fine increment to work around at this low a turn count. I would need to shorten the motor to get a higher Kv. If I made a 4018/2y it would have a Kv of around 1150. Does that sound like a better plan?

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03-31-2009 02:39 AM  9 years agoPost 68
LJS

rrKey Veteran

Minnesota, USA

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Hi David,

The 1050kv 4020 sounds great to me. For a Logo 500, that would take a 16 or 17 tooth pinion depending on the headspeed you'd like to run (2200-2350 at 80% governed). Mikado makes 5mm mod 0.7 pinions ranging from 12 to 19 tooth so you'd be right in the meat of them. Plus, more pinion teeth means less likelihood of stripping a gear.

I don't like the sound of shortening the motor. Sounds like less power to me.

The motors that Esprit has available for immediate sale have 5 mm shafts in the 4025s and 6 mm shafts in the 4030s. No offense, but when I tried ordering from you, you never responded. (I understand that you're very busy.) It'd be nice to see those shafts on Esprit's and Bobby's websites.

Wish you'd have had the 4020 done last month. I definitely would have bought one over the Scorpion 4025.

Hey David, don't burn out. I'd like to see you in business for a long time.

LJS

Logo 600 VBar, 10S
TRex 600E VBar, 8S
Logo 500 VBar, 6S
TRex 600ESP, 6S

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03-31-2009 05:36 AM  9 years agoPost 69
roc

rrNovice

Hongkong

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hello
everything is in making according to the plan,not worry!

4020---sure in making too!

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03-31-2009 06:54 AM  9 years agoPost 70
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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CNCAddict,

I'm the new guy here so I refer to the "experts".

If LJS says a 1050kV 4020 would put my headspeed at 2200-2350 with a 16 or 17T pinion on 6s then that sounds great.

I may have to hold off a little on the Scorpion and take a gamble that you'd have this new motor sooner than expected.

Dave

Diabolo 700UL / Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Oxy 2 / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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04-01-2009 08:12 AM  9 years agoPost 71
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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changed out my 4020-1100kv/16T P Scorp to a 4025-1100 w 15T Scorp, flew it today, was impressed with the low end for sure.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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04-01-2009 12:56 PM  9 years agoPost 72
LJS

rrKey Veteran

Minnesota, USA

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Hi Shawn,

Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. 2200 rpm headspeed with plenty of grunt.

Did you check the headspeed?

I have both the 4020 at higher headspeed and the 4025 set up for testing if the weather here would ever clear up. We had snow this morning.

Thanks for the report.
LJS

Logo 600 VBar, 10S
TRex 600E VBar, 8S
Logo 500 VBar, 6S
TRex 600ESP, 6S

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04-01-2009 05:43 PM  9 years agoPost 73
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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backing off governor to around 75 I think I was at 2300 on 15 tooth with the 4025. I ran out of packs but I was happy with it there really, lots of grunt and not too much HS on the 500, 2300 is about a nice HS for it.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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04-02-2009 12:29 AM  9 years agoPost 74
Terrabit

rrElite Veteran

Seattle, WA - USA

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We had snow here in Seattle this morning too. I did get some sim time in though. In honor of this thread I gave all the helis a flew today extra headspeed and horse power!

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04-02-2009 02:04 PM  9 years agoPost 75
SMITHB72866

rrVeteran

FLORIDA

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Oicu812

I knew you would like it the 4025 is a lot more Grunt over the smaller 4020

RREmodels

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04-02-2009 07:40 PM  9 years agoPost 76
Zaaaguy72

rrElite Veteran

MN

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I have both the 4025-890 Scorpion and 4025-830 Xera Motors. The 890 is in my Outrage 550, and the 830 is in my Logo 500. I use the CC HV85 in both heli's and choose a pinion that will put my headspeed about 300 above the target speed I want, which is about 2350 on both heli's, for a total headspeed of 2650 when choosing a pinion. I think both of my heli's are running 16 tooth pinions on 8s. The CC HV-85 works awesome in Gov mode if you just give it enough headroom to work, hence choosing a pinion that gives you about 300 headspeed over your target speed. The linear throttle curves I run for both motors is around %60. Bobby S. at RREMODELS taught me and my flying buddy, MAXHSHV, to do it this way, and I must say, the HV85 is one of the best ESC's out there if setup properly.

As per power, it is really close between the Xera and the Scorpion, but the Xera runs a lot cooler on both the motor, and ESC. Both motors are great, I personally prefer the Xera.

Team Sanjel!

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04-05-2009 02:24 AM  9 years agoPost 77
MAXHSHV

rrKey Veteran

,mn usa

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HEY ZAAA , I'm pretty sure you meant a flat throttle curve with govener.
I find 300 rpm headroom good but seams every heli has it's sweet spot.
the instructions that come with the cc hv 85 tell you to take your blades off , spool it up to the max headspeed , then take that number and pull it down to 80% of that, to get the right headspeed, so on a 550 size bird that flys good at 2400 hs you would need gearing for 3000. In my own experimenting(mostly after talking to bobby at rre )
that setup works awesome provideing you have a motor that is overpowered.for the average setup i would say 85 to 90% of max headspeed give aenough headroom.
But as zaaa said the headroom is the key to getting the govener to work properly.

Century heli rep. To much power is never enough.

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04-05-2009 03:03 AM  9 years agoPost 78
Zaaaguy72

rrElite Veteran

MN

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Thanks MAX, you were right on the throttle curves.

Team Sanjel!

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04-08-2009 07:02 PM  9 years agoPost 79
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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Ok guys...

I just received my Scorpion 4025-1100. I don't even have the Mikado 15 T pinion yet but I noticed that there's no flat spot on the motor shaft for the pinion set screw to rest in.

Should I try to file/dremel one or just make sure I torque the set-screw really good?

Dave

Diabolo 700UL / Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Oxy 2 / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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04-08-2009 07:07 PM  9 years agoPost 80
CNCAddict

rrApprentice

Newport, N.C.

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Things will get ugly if you don't use a flat. Just make sure you cover the motor up good when you grind the flat so all that grinding dust doesn't make it's way to the bearings/magnets.

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Mikado
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