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04-26-2009 06:33 AM  9 years agoPost 41
Gregor99

rrElite Veteran

Western Wa

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As for coming out of the inverted portion and falling down to create a "floop", that is either because you came off negative too early or came on positive too late
There was probably a little bit of both. I was experimenting with timing as well as amount of negative, so I'm sure I did the wrong thing a couple times. Except for the fighting the wind, this is the first time I've flown with the left stick in that position, so I'm still getting used it.
just wait a split sec longer than you think you should and watch how the flip tightens up
Will do.
Technically he just SAYS he did ... video proof is conveniently lacking
Yes, I know. I've been meaning to resolve my video issues and capture some of my latest stuff as well as the flips. I'll work on that. Until then consider all my claims "pending".

Revolectrix Beta Team

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04-26-2009 01:19 PM  9 years agoPost 42
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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You Go Greg !! If Greg says he did-- he did !!I'm not sure Greg is even capable of lying ! However- Videos really are the ultimate proof !

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04-26-2009 05:01 PM  9 years agoPost 43
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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I took the Protos to the field this morning and am just not happy with it at all. I spent the first pack desensitizing it and I have figured out that I need to loosen up the ball links more. The cyclic it just too stiff and it wanders all over, making it a total bitch to hover and land. I found that I have to auto it in the last 2 feet or I chance crashing it. Only half fed up with it I went ahead and tossed in a second pack. This time I tied some ff but it is just way touchy. Tired of that also I took it up higher and started to flip and roll it. Now there are where the strengths lay! That is the easiest bird to flip that I have flown to date! It is fast and powerful and that makes it very agile. Of course is makes you be careful with your timing or it is a handful but get the timing right and it is a breeze! I did several sets of consecutive back flips, a few front flips and several rolls. I even held it inverted for a second but like I said, it is not hovering well right now. My plan is to get the reamer out tonight and loosen it up some more and then try it again tomorrow.

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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04-26-2009 07:39 PM  9 years agoPost 44
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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I'm not sure Greg is even capable of lying !
Lying is illogical. In the end, the truth is always revealed. Always speak the truth and you will live long and propser.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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04-26-2009 08:57 PM  9 years agoPost 45
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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Lying is illogical. In the end, the truth is always revealed. Always speak the truth and you will live long and propser.
Yep !!! I took out my BCPP with the King 2 tail for the first time in several months---- rolled it --flipped it and cut some grass-- 83 degrees and sunny.

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04-27-2009 05:07 AM  9 years agoPost 46
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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Flew at the local field today. 7 packs in the T500 and 2 in the HBK2. No flips with the T500, but both packs in the HBK2 were all flips. The first pack went much like yesterday, lots of floops. I tried remember all that Chris and Fender had said. I still wasn't getting it.

On the second pack, one of the seasoned pilots stood next to me and talked me through it. It seems I wasn't apply negative soon enough, then leaving it on too long. He recommended that I give "blip" of negative rather than trying to follow the loop with the collective. I did a couple more giving ALOT more collective but for a much shorter period. At one point I was giving it full negative collective but only for a little blimp. That turned out to be bad thing, bogging the motor and kicking the tail. This resulted in a wild corkscrew dive towards earth. I managed to recover and contined working on my collective manangement. I ended day after a few more much cleaner flips.

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04-27-2009 04:33 PM  9 years agoPost 47
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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Man just take that 500 up higher and flip it over!!! Go do it right now!!!

Sounds like you are on the path, now you just gotta follow it for a while. For me it took about 100 back flips before I could get the timing reliable enough where I felt secure in doing them. I mean I could do them but it was always a little bit of a rush and many times I came out of them all crazy. It also took me a while to figure out that I was adding in a little right aileron when I was pulling back all the way. Once I got that figured out then they started to tighten up.

One note on the King is that it is a very hard bird to perfectly flip. Even the Rex is hard and it is way more bird! Part of it is the weight and part of it is the lack of blade authority. Both end up making the timing and amount of collective critical. The bigger birds weigh more and have much more power, thus it is much easier to master flips on them or at least look like you have mastered flips on them.

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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04-27-2009 05:10 PM  9 years agoPost 48
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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I'm still not comfortbale flying the T500. At least not like I am on the HBK2. With the HBK2 I can do nose-in all day. On the t500 it makes me nervous. I just need more time on the T500 before I take more risks. I'm currently at 68 flights on the T500 and 711 on the HBK2. I figure by the time I hit 100 it will get better.

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04-27-2009 05:13 PM  9 years agoPost 49
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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Well that's more than I have, I only have 53 flights on the Protos and 22 on the R30

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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04-28-2009 03:36 AM  9 years agoPost 50
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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I tried a few new things with the Protos today.

First was a variation on a back flip. I would flip it over inverted, hold it however long I wanted, pull back again until the heli was vertical (nose looking at the ground and then let it fall. I did 2 of them where I started about 120ft up so and let it fall about 50ft before pulling out of it. It was a challenge for me to hold it that long and it gathered all kinds of speed in the process, making the blades really beat the air when I pulled out of it

Next was some stall turns with piros at the top while falling. I would get some decent speed an let it climb up vertical maybe 75-100ft until it stalled. Then I would piro it slowly once or twice while it fell. Man that is a hard thing to do, let go that is. You have to let gravity take it and just know that you can catch it.

Last was what I am calling standing loops. The Protos has an enormous amount of power so from a hover you can lean it forward a little just to get it moving and then dig into the collective and pull back. The result is a loop that starts out small but grows as the bird climbs. My other helis don't have enough power to even come close to doing this but the Protos does it with ease.

Anyhow that is what I did with my 4 packs today. I gotta say I am having a blast with the Protos now that I am not just hovering it.

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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04-28-2009 05:32 AM  9 years agoPost 51
Gregor99

rrElite Veteran

Western Wa

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Double checked my pitch range before trying more flips and found I wasn't as close to 0 at midstick as I thought. Locked the flybar this time and reset the pitch.

Tried more flips with new settings and its getting better. Honestly I'm a little surprised how much I'm enjoying the challenge of flips. From my SIM experience, I was expecting them to be a little easier, and quite frankly, boring. But my to my surprise, there's lots of growth potential to accomplish tight flips.

The nice thing about flips is you don't have to be good at them to do them. After working on backwards flight for so long its nice to have some easy success.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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04-28-2009 06:41 AM  9 years agoPost 52
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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Sims are just that, simulators. They are not real in any way. Yes you can learn stick movements on the sim but the flight characteristics are nothing like reality. The environment is too simplistic, the physics are too idealistic and models are way too perfect

Sorry I felt like venting.

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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04-28-2009 06:47 AM  9 years agoPost 53
jwhitacre

rrKey Veteran

Tarentum,PA- US

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^^^^^ +1 Sims do nothing for me at all. No matter how many times I try to, I just can't take it seriously. I wish I could use them since my stick time is minimal in the spring and fall because of my traveling for work. Oh well guess I'll be limited to basic flying forever

Depleting the world of parts, one crash at a time!!

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04-28-2009 02:42 PM  9 years agoPost 54
Melnic

rrElite Veteran

Columbia, MD,USA

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Tjin, can you get some videos of those maneuvers with the Protos?
I have noticed the Protos is light for the amount of power and siz it is.
How much wind are you flying in?
How is it's wind stability comparing to a 450 and your Raptor?

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04-28-2009 04:25 PM  9 years agoPost 55
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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I can try to get some video but as high as I have been flying this new stuff, it is going to be really hard to see it on video. I will have see if Mike can pull it off. Really I need a video camera instead of using my picture camera but alas, I prefer to spend my money on heli parts

As for "stability" in the wind, the Protos is terrible. It is so light and yet has a big enough rotor disc to make it very easily pushed around. The R30 is the easiest by far but the Rex is easy compared to the Protos. Hell yesterday there was about a 5mph constant wind and on early spool up it tipped the Protos over! I saved it but only barely as the blades were about an inch from the ground. When it happens I just have to keep spooling up so I can have functioning ailerons in order to stand it back up again. That is the 3rd time that has happened. I am learning to take off pointed into the wind.

Once you are off the ground and moving around it is better. I ran all 4 packs yesterday in varying winds from 2mph constant to 15mph gusts at ground level but most of my flying was way up and I bet it was nice and windy up there. I never really noticed the wind up there like I do with the Rex, so it is a mixed bag.

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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04-28-2009 06:30 PM  9 years agoPost 56
Melnic

rrElite Veteran

Columbia, MD,USA

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Sims,
I find I get alot of use out of them.
I had flown a little backwards flight years ago but it was maybe a 1/2 circle at best before I'd bail, and tried to do it again late last fall, Almost dumped it in several times. I spent I think 6-8 evenings at 6-10 minutes at a time doing nothing but backwards flight a couple months ago. By flight 4 or 5 on the sim I was lasting the whole time without crashing. On a day w/ little wind, I took the 450 up and by flight #3, I was pretty comfortable doing figure 8's all backwards and also doing figure 8's switching every 1/2 rotation. I would not say I've mastered it but the simulator helped TREMENDOUSLY!

There are some definite aspects on the sim that are not realistic and the one I use (Clearview) sometimes acts a bit strange on the weathervane effect, but to work on orientation and practice stick movements, it's well worth it in my opinion to see if you can get stick time on the sim first. Definitly worth it for a beginner as well as anyone trying inverted or backwards. Some other manuevers probably can't be duplicated on the sim but are worth trying to iron out your hand movements first on them before trying a live heli.

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04-28-2009 06:48 PM  9 years agoPost 57
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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Just to clarify, I am not saying sims are worthless. They are just not real so learning things like backflips is far from reality. The only real use I see for them is learning stick movements for things like nose-in or inverted or backwards flight. Those things are low adrenaline, slow moving and that only requires you to make the right stick movements. Add a move in that relies on timing and the sim becomes near useless.

As a note I need to start working on my backwards flight and will start using the sim more for that.

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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04-28-2009 09:21 PM  9 years agoPost 58
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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Most everyone has a different opinion on Sims--- the vast majority believe they are helpful in stick movement training. Without any SIM use at all - I betcha you will crash ALOT more in the learning process. However the real proof is always on the real life heli no matter how much sim time you put in.
I heard Alan Szabo say in an interview that he doesn't really use a SIM that much--- he crashes alot on a SIM but doesn't crash that much in real life ! Go figure To each his own.

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04-28-2009 09:38 PM  9 years agoPost 59
Melnic

rrElite Veteran

Columbia, MD,USA

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I DEFINITLY crash more on the sim.
And I would hope so.

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04-28-2009 09:48 PM  9 years agoPost 60
Gregor99

rrElite Veteran

Western Wa

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I find SIMs to very useful for most new things I've tried. The issue with flips is that the sim I use (Phoenix) is notorious for its "floatiness". Autos are a little too easy and there are times when you can flip without loosing alititude and using very little negative collective.

I do find that some of the same mistakes I make with real heli I also make with the SIM, and the SIM responds the same way. But I can fly the sim for much longer because there's not a ton of adreneline pumping. After two packs of flips, I need a break.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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