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MSH Protos, Mini Protos
› Tail blowing out easily??
01-19-2009 03:15 AM  9 years agoPost 21
NTM

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Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

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I'm kind of having the same troubles, a 9257 wouldn't work for me.
I went to a 9254 with my spartan, and it was hugely improved, but I still don't have that vise grip hold that I'm looking for.
Resized all the links and replaced the grip bearings.
I suspect it's related to the pitch link holder being slightly out of square when being threaded onto the brass sleeve. The pitch links put an uneven load on the pitch yoke and it binds the brass sleeve on the tail shaft.
Mine is just barely out of square, I mean hardly even visible. But that's the last thing I can see causing any binding.

Regards,
Nathan

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01-19-2009 05:30 AM  9 years agoPost 22
McRex

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AZ-USA

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I just noticed tonight that the tail pushrod was binding slightly on the guide, I removed the guide, and it seemed much smoother, and no more squeak! I don't for-see me having any issues, being that the pushrod is carbon, and pretty hefty. I also took the reamer to the links on the grips, and the are super smooth now. I think that will be the ticket for me. I hope to fly again tomorrow and we'll see if it seems better or not. Don't think I'll be re-installing the 9257 though, the 8900G is super fast!

Daniel, AMA # 923248

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01-19-2009 10:49 AM  9 years agoPost 23
gorn

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Western Australia

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Yes Im using ATV in the gear channel for gyro gain, 6ch RX.

For the love of the hobby

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01-20-2009 02:11 PM  9 years agoPost 24
gorn

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Western Australia

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Ok, I tried again today.
Im using a Futaba 5 point star horn now, and the ball is the 2nd hole out from center.
This gave me exactly 100% both directions in the Spartan end point menu.
First hop I had reduced the gain in gear channel to 50%, nope still sloppy.
Land and up gain to 60%, nope still sloppy, but better.
Up to 70%, wagged a touch mid way though spoolup, no wagging in hover.
Full pitch for maybe 1.5secs, heli rotated a full 90deg anti clockwise.

This is crap, so I landed and called it a day.

So I have my friend look at the tail, and feel how free or not it is in his opinion.
Smooth as silk. No binding, just smooth and easy.

So Im dumping the 9257, and Im going all out now, and putting one of my BLS251's on it dammit!! lol.
If this doesnt hold, then Im sending the gyro to Spartan for an inspection.

The tail has a massive pitch range, the belt is not slipping, there is no visual vibration issues, the heli is silent except for motor and blades, no buzzing whatsoever.

I cannot even get it into FF like this, as its always windy here.

Im also going to tear the tail down and check the pulley.
It is the new version, but I have to satisfy my curiosity with all avenues.

So there you go, no result lol

For the love of the hobby

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01-20-2009 02:14 PM  9 years agoPost 25
gorn

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Western Australia

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I will add, my original Hacker motor had a lot less power than the Scorpion.
BUT I could tic toc and flip that.
The tail still was not locked by any means, but it would not let go.
It was just loose and would put flips off center every time.

For the love of the hobby

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01-20-2009 03:37 PM  9 years agoPost 26
Pulento

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CHILE

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Your setup looks ok, 100 travel with 70% gain.

So probably the 9257 is bad. Did you tested on a servo tester under load ? I had a 8900G which had the same problems, usually gyros don't fail as much as servos.

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01-20-2009 03:52 PM  9 years agoPost 27
gorn

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Western Australia

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I dont have a servo tester.
I have both a 9254 and the BLS251 here to try tomorrow.
So if 9257, 9254 and BLS251 all dont work, well then its the gyro lol.

It bugs me though, as others have had very good results with the lighter weight 9257.
Like you say though, the 9257 may be a lemon. Nothing is perfect, so yes a servo could be bad.

Cheers

For the love of the hobby

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01-20-2009 04:03 PM  9 years agoPost 28
McRex

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AZ-USA

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Gorn, I used a 9254 for a week or so while I was waiting on my 8900g and it did well, a whole lot better than the 9257, but I may have gotten a lemon to, as I run a 9257 on my 450 and it works great. Good luck to you, hope you get it straightened out,

Regards,

Daniel, AMA # 923248

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01-20-2009 04:10 PM  9 years agoPost 29
gorn

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Western Australia

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thanks McRex

Im very keen to get the problem sorted, as right now the machine is kinda lethal to fly lol.
A bit scary actually.
IF the different servo does the trick, then I will also try the Align DS520 that is doing duty on the tail of my 450 with a Spartan.
Same pulse as the 9257, same size and torque, but .09 sec(will take 6v and be .07sec)instead of .08 on the 9257.
Will be interesting to see if it is a dodgy servo, or if it is indeed torque related.

Anyway, on to tomorrows testing!

For the love of the hobby

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01-20-2009 04:15 PM  9 years agoPost 30
McRex

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AZ-USA

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Gorn, let me know how that goes, I am very curious, since I had the same problem, and my tail feels pretty smooth. I may pick up a servo tester and see how mine fairs. Does that DS520 do pretty good on the tail of your 450?

Daniel, AMA # 923248

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01-20-2009 04:40 PM  9 years agoPost 31
gorn

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Western Australia

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The Align servo on the 450 is awesome.
I can still get it to let go, BUT thats in some serious wind that most wont fly their 450 in lol.
When it did let go, I was actually waiting for it, as I was pushing it hard to see if it would blow out eventually

Those same servo's are doing cyclic duty on the Protos.
Plenty powerful, and crack pack fast at .07 on 6v.
Protos with these cracks very nicely.
Im no pro by a long shot, but I can crack hover pretty damned good lol.
Sounds excellent too

I went with these servos, as their cheaper than Futaba on purchase price, but mostly because of gear set price.
They are half the cost of Futaba. Important when crashing, as when I crash, its always a good one lol.
Center very well, extremely smooth, and quiet too.
Win win for me so far

For the love of the hobby

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01-23-2009 03:07 PM  9 years agoPost 32
gorn

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Western Australia

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no testing done yet, have been busy with work.
Fitted the BLS251 tonight, hoping to get a couple of flights in after work.
Just keeping the post current, as Im finding it very interesting what has and has not worked for you guys as well.
What I want to know, is WHY do the mid size servo's sometimes not work well on the Protos?
Some have great success, others have not lol.
Cheers

For the love of the hobby

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01-23-2009 05:21 PM  9 years agoPost 33
McRex

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AZ-USA

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I think it has to do with the tail, it's a great design, just when building it, there are a ton of little things that if they are not exactly perfect, will cause drag. Imo, that's the main reason some people have issues with less powerful servos. On my heli though, I can't seem to get it any smoother than it is, and still my 9257 couldn't get the job done. I think I may have a bad servo, but I don't have a tester, so it'll be a while before I find that out for sure. I'm thinking of trying it out on my 450, just to see, as I already have a 9257 on it, so swapping it out should make no difference if the servo is good. I hope your new servo works out for you, I am also interested in seeing what happens with yours, as a larger servo fixed it for me.

Daniel, AMA # 923248

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01-25-2009 12:33 PM  9 years agoPost 34
gorn

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Western Australia

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Well I did a test today.....not good.
It was only maginally better than before, but would not let go in a hover, just in any form of climb or descent lol.

After I landed, I wanted to have a look over the tail.
Errrr why is that servo creeping across to hard rudder?
Reboot, same deal.

Give it a rest, reboot, spool up, ohhhhh ok ground piroetting???
The light was on on the gyro, but no'one was home.
Just pushing the tail around by hand, no response at all.

I suspect my Spartan needs some love from Spartan UK lol.
Im going to pull my other Spartan off my 450, and will test that tomorrow.

This is starting to get on my nerves

For the love of the hobby

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01-25-2009 05:30 PM  9 years agoPost 35
CatchMyStratus

rrNovice

Ohio

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Are you sure your gain is high enough? I think I had that creep happen on setup once and it turned out my gain was too low. Really freaked me out to see that slider moving for no reason.

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01-26-2009 01:16 AM  9 years agoPost 36
McRex

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AZ-USA

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How stiff is your tail assembly? It really sounds like it's sticking, when it stopped responding where was the slider? If it was all the way in, I've seen mine get a bit sticky at the max inboard travel. You may also have a bad gyro??? Let me know what happens when you swap gyros. Man I hope things start going better for you!

Regards,

Daniel, AMA # 923248

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01-26-2009 01:28 AM  9 years agoPost 37
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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I tried my gain all the way up to 100% lol, didnt help.
There is no friction in the tail, and even when I remove the pushrod from the servo and moce it past where the servo travels, it still doesnt stick or bind.

Had sniff of the gyro last night....doesnt smell healthy.
Has that "wrong" electrical smell

The slider was hard across against the tail hub, for left piro.
No binding there at all.
Tried moving the stick on the TX, nothin..

Thanks Daniel, I do too

For the love of the hobby

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01-26-2009 01:24 PM  9 years agoPost 38
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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Test hovered today, tail seems to be holding.
Didnt get to do any flying, just hovered in the driveway.
Put a 2nd pack in, into the hover, servos twitched a few times as well as the tail.
That would possibly be static, because dopy forgot to lube the belt again lol.
Wont get to fly/try it again til next Sunday

For the love of the hobby

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01-26-2009 05:04 PM  9 years agoPost 39
SnackEater

rrNovice

Hong Kong

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Did you check your ESC setting? Running a governor mode ESC with a V throttle curve can make your tail go wild too.

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01-26-2009 05:16 PM  9 years agoPost 40
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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I just run flat curves, no governor.
Its an Align ESC, so I never bothered trying GOV mode lol.

For the love of the hobby

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