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MSH Protos, Mini Protos
› Tail blowing out easily??
01-18-2009 03:09 PM  9 years agoPost 1
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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Well I havent been very happy with the tail on my Protos since I got it.
Never locked in, always had a slow kinda meandering wag to it.

Today it blew out 180deg......in a hover
Thats right, I was hovering in the wind.
Yes the wind was strong, but not un-flyable.
I was flying my 450 in it, flips tic tocs etc, so the 500 should be fine lol.

I have my tail travel maxed out, its smooth.
I have to turn the head quite hard when holding the tail to get the belt to slip.

Gear I run:
Futaba 9257, round servo horn
Spartan DS760, 60% gain (flashed with latest firmware)
MSH carbon reinforced tail blades
Scorpion 3026-880 15t 100%
12 12 pitch, 9 cyclic

Last time I took it out, it struggled to do a left piro in the wind.
Was very whippy.

My 450 has the same setup, piro's fine, holds great.

I cant work out what is going on here. mechanically its all good.
Electronically it all works.

Ideas????
Flips are always out of round, as the tail wanders, and have to correct a lot each time.

Cheers

For the love of the hobby

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01-18-2009 03:11 PM  9 years agoPost 2
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Static hit possibly? I can't see that combo of electronics not being able to keep up with that tail......Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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01-18-2009 03:18 PM  9 years agoPost 3
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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I had silicon lubed it 5 mins before flight.
RX was solid when I landed, no flashing.
The heli had full control the whole time, just very weak tail.

Its got me beat right now.
Ive used a Spartan on my 90 before, was excellent.

An idea of tail pitch.
In the Spartan USB setup screen, I have my end points for travel set at 130 and 145.
Maxed out mechanically one way, and electronically the other.

Sigh

For the love of the hobby

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01-18-2009 03:21 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Did you try moving the ball link in one hole (closer to the center) to increase the resolution?

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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01-18-2009 03:25 PM  9 years agoPost 5
gorn

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Western Australia

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No. The round horn has no inner holes, and is only about 2mm longer than the inner most star horn hole.

I will try that though.
The other thing Im going to try, is removing the Zeal gel tape from the gyro.
I had it, and was out of pads.
Perhaps thats damping it too much?

For the love of the hobby

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01-18-2009 03:30 PM  9 years agoPost 6
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I don't think that is the problem unless the gyro is moving during moves. Do you have another servo horn to try that will give you adjustment? That is what I had to do......Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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01-18-2009 03:37 PM  9 years agoPost 7
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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I have a star horn here that I can try.
It eats me up with how much power this thing has, but the tail is all wiggly and soft lol.

I know its not a design issue, thats the other reason its getting to me.

I will change the horn, and re test on Tuesday when I get a chance.
i'll post back my results.

One thing though.
If Im already having to go so high in my travel adjust to get max tail pitch, thats going to get worse with a closer hole spacing.

Anyway, i will try one hole closer, and one further out if it doesnt work.

Thanks for your advice

For the love of the hobby

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01-18-2009 04:54 PM  9 years agoPost 8
CatchMyStratus

rrNovice

Ohio

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I would try another tail servo.

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01-18-2009 05:53 PM  9 years agoPost 9
Mentalic

rrKey Veteran

Luling, Louisiana USA

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Seems like you have checked the electronic side well enough and have experience with the Spartan. How about mechanical setup? From the servo the push rod has to be near frictionless, if its not find out why. If its not first check is the ball links, also verify that the push rod is not rubbing the boom support guide.

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01-18-2009 06:04 PM  9 years agoPost 10
tnbulldog

rrApprentice

Cookeville, TN

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I'm using the Futaba 5 star servo horn on my 9257 with the ball all the way out on the outer most hole.
I'm having zero issues with my Spartan with this setup.

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01-18-2009 09:49 PM  9 years agoPost 11
McRex

rrVeteran

AZ-USA

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I was running the 9257 with a G770 3D and have been having the same issues with my tail, it kinda wanders around, some times seems as if I have no control over it at all. I am in the process of switching to a 8900G for the tail, I'm thinking the 9257 is the issue, at least for me. I don't think it has enough grunt for the Protos tail, at least not mine. I was running a GY401/9257 and had the same issues, then switched to the bigger 9254 and it locked in, but found a deal on a 770, so I wanted to try it. Hopefully the 8900G locks it back in, as this is getting frustrating.

Daniel, AMA # 923248

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01-18-2009 10:21 PM  9 years agoPost 12
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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I have checked the ball links on the tail previously, and gone over them with the Protos sizing tool pretty good.
Tail shaft is lubed, rod isnt touching support.

I have a star horn here to try, so I'll do that 1st.

I also have a 9254 as well, so I'll try that if the horn doesnt solve the issue.

All good stuff here guys, excellent

For the love of the hobby

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01-18-2009 11:04 PM  9 years agoPost 13
Corrado-Italy

rrVeteran

Italy

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It sound like you have no power to the tail, check the tail pulley that is in good conditions. I am sure you have the new one right?

Corrado

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01-18-2009 11:27 PM  9 years agoPost 14
McRex

rrVeteran

AZ-USA

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Well, switching to the 8900G has solved it, just flew 2 packs and she's locked in. It sucks that I had to switch to the 8900 to solve this, but I was at my wits end with it, nothing seemed to work, I tried moving the ball link in to different spots, I checked and re-checked everything on the tail, and still no change. I guess I just never got to the sweet spot with the 9257.

Daniel, AMA # 923248

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01-18-2009 11:39 PM  9 years agoPost 15
Corrado-Italy

rrVeteran

Italy

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If a bigger and a more torquey servo fixes it than there is a good chance your tail is not free. Check it, because i have flown and seen others fly 9257 on Protos tail with excellent results.

Corrado

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01-18-2009 11:42 PM  9 years agoPost 16
Mentalic

rrKey Veteran

Luling, Louisiana USA

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Good deal, must not had enough torque or its a bad servo. I have had servos fail were you could just grab the horn and move it easily while its powered. I'm running a 3500g with the ball 8mm out, works very well.

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01-18-2009 11:49 PM  9 years agoPost 17
Pulento

rrVeteran

CHILE

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According to Angelo's from Spartan the closer you got your travels to 100 the better. To me you have to increase the length of your servo arm.

When you say %60 gain, which radio ? which mode (Gyro or Gear if is JR/Spektrum)

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01-19-2009 12:01 AM  9 years agoPost 18
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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Pulento

JR DSX9 2.4g
Spektrum AR6100
Using gear channel

For the love of the hobby

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01-19-2009 12:24 AM  9 years agoPost 19
Pulento

rrVeteran

CHILE

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So your using ATVs to set the gain not the gyro menu ?

Because 60 on the gyro menu is quite low gain. OTOH you're loosing servo speed with travels at 135 on the Spartan, try to increase servo arm length to get ~100 on the travels.

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01-19-2009 01:18 AM  9 years agoPost 20
McRex

rrVeteran

AZ-USA

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I thought about going with a 3500G, but already had the 8900, so just used it. Corrado, my tail is pretty smooth, compared to how it was, but it still isn't super smooth, I will keep working on the links on the grips, as I think that's probably where the problem is. Hopefully I'll get it perfect soon. Are there any changed parts on the tail, other than the pulley?

I can't get anymore than 20 for gain on mine, using the DX7 and the gear channel. G7703D/8900G

Daniel, AMA # 923248

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