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T-REX 500 › Holy static piro glitch
01-17-2009 12:54 AM  9 years agoPost 21
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Yea but there are only about four people flying each of those, not really a statistical comparison. Look on the Mikado page, there are plenty of people there that are grounding their tail case. Why is this necessarily an Align problem? It definitely seems more prevalent w/ 2.4 systems. Why are they more susceptible to static lockouts than 72?
Whether it is a statistical comparison or not (it isn't BTW)the fact remains the models I mentioned don't have the issues, so why is that?

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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01-17-2009 01:01 AM  9 years agoPost 22
missle

rrApprentice

West Chester, Oh

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Why is it that this particular heli (T-rex 500) is having these issues with the belt but other models aren't? What in the design is different than the 450 or 600?

WATCH OUT!!!!!!!!

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01-17-2009 01:02 AM  9 years agoPost 23
Funky Trex

rrElite Veteran

Westerville, OH - USA

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I am going to get the TT. It is cheap insurance. Plus it has its other advantages. I noticed that there is a lot more energy in the head for an auto with the 500 than with the 450. The TT is going to be even better, and I want to see if this thing will auto from a couple hundred feet up!
The 500 does pretty good in autos. It doesn't auto as well as a 50 size heli but it is much easier than a 450.

BTW, which gyro are you using on the 500? I had some pretty bad static/tail kicking issues when I tried running a Solid-G on mine.

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01-17-2009 01:06 AM  9 years agoPost 24
ckoelliker

rrElite Veteran

St. Simons, GA

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the fact remains the models I mentioned don't have the issues, so why is that?
Because so few people are actually flying these models. There is just not enough in the air for us to hear about any issues. Why is it a problem w/ the Mikado's as well? Their boom is plenty wide, and as far as I know the belt does not rub. Once again why is it necessarily an Align issue? It does seem to me that the overwhelming majority of static issues are w/ the JR/spectrum 2.4 systems. You could use my same argument and say that not nearly as many people are flying the futaba 2.4 and you very well may be right, but once again why is the 2.4 receiver so easily reset?

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01-17-2009 02:43 AM  9 years agoPost 25
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Because so few people are actually flying these models. There is just not enough in the air for us to hear about any issues. Why is it a problem w/ the Mikado's as well? Their boom is plenty wide, and as far as I know the belt does not rub. Once again why is it necessarily an Align issue? It does seem to me that the overwhelming majority of static issues are w/ the JR/spectrum 2.4 systems. You could use my same argument and say that not nearly as many people are flying the futaba 2.4 and you very well may be right, but once again why is the 2.4 receiver so easily reset?
At the risk of upsetting a few folks, the Spektrum system only uses 2 channels while the Futaba and Airtronics systems are Freq Hoppers. The ATX radio uses the recommended FCC scheme while the Futaba uses its own scheme to the best of my knowledge. This may be where the differences lie. It will all depend on the amount of noise that the belt generates and what exactly the RX sees when the static is discharged.

TM

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01-17-2009 04:13 AM  9 years agoPost 26
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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There are MANY belt-driven choppers on the market, and there have been many belt driven helis on the market for YEARS that don't suffer the issues that the Mikado folk, or the Trex 500 folk suffer.

Freyas, EVOs, Shuttles of all variety, Kyosho Caliber 3, 4, 5, 30, the Thunder Tiger Raptors, Lepton, Trex 250, 450 (in about 5000 different variations), Trex 600e, TRex 600N, Hurricane, Gaui, Century, the original Shogun 400, many of the knockoff 450 sized helis...the list goes on and on and on. Many of these have been flown for YEARS using that nasty old 72MHz technology, many are flown successfully using the new 2.4 GHz stuff, whether it's from Futaba, ATX, or JR/Spektrum.

The 500 seems to have been dealt a particularly nasty blow in this area. The Mikado, apparently to a lesser extent. I believe that the actual SOURCE of the trouble in the 500 has been well documented. The tail rotor drive. Not the design, as there is nothing inherently wrong with a belt-driven tail rotor, rather the implementation seems to have gone awry.

I built my 500, but due to the sucky weather here in Iowa, have only gotten a couple of test fligths in my front driveway. The first one it seemed that the tail was just weird. It appeared that the belt may have been a bit too loose, I tightened it, got a second flight in, it felt "better". Whether the first flight was glitches, or a loose belt, I am not certain. But there were indications (perhaps imagined as I was "expecting" trouble) that the radio just wasn't a happy camper.

But in the meantime, I ordered, received, and installed a torque tube upgrade. Since the TT upgrade replaces the entire rear end of the heli, I was afforded the opportunity to look at the belt drive fully assembled, as well as to take it apart and look at the individual pieces closely. What I've noticed, is that the belt has nearly zero clearance at the front-end of the boom. Further, after only two flights, I can see what appears to be definite evidence of the belt having been rubbing on the boom at the front-end.

There's a "poll" being conducted here about who has had the static trouble on a belt-driven 500 (without having done anything to fix the problem) in an effort to "prove" that only a small percentage of 500s suffer this fate, and that the majority of stock 500s are trouble free. So far, that poll seems to suggest that it's a crap shoot, and about 50% of the respondents have had trouble, 50% haven't.

As far as I can tell, those who have HAD trouble with the 500's belt-driven tail, who have swapped it out for the TT upgrade, have left the problem behind and are now enjoying their 500s without having to worry about that next flight being a real wild ride.

I haven't seen many (if any) posts from someone who made the switch, and DIDN'T solve the problem.

The evidence seems substantial, and it seems to point at the belt-drive as being a serious issue in the 500. But it's the implementation that seems to be at fault (clearances too close for comfort), not the system itself.

Perhaps as one thread here on RR has suggested, the fix is as simple as making the diameter of the pulleys a bit smaller to increase the operating clearance between the belt and the boom. Perhaps a larger diameter tube for the boom would be in order. Perhaps a couple of idler pulleys located between the front drive pulley and the entry to the tube at the front of the boom would suffice. Perhaps a belt made of electrically conductive material would suffice (since some have solved the problem by using silicone spray, anti-static spray, WD-40, or even by rubbing a soft-lead pencil -- coating the belt with graphite). There would appear to be ample opportunity for a production change to "fix" this problem, short of doing away with the belt altogether, or short of having to buy an $80 upgrade kit.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-17-2009 04:31 AM  9 years agoPost 27
strat1960s

rrApprentice

San Antonio Texas

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I hate to shoot holes in anyone's conspiracy theories, but here goes.
I ran the 2.4 DX6 on my RC Tek 450 Sky Shark with no static discharge issues. I am currently running the 2.4 DX7 on my Trex 600, again, with no static discharge issues.

I haven't flown the Futaba systems so I can only speculate what's going on. Maybe the Futaba was un-intentionally made more resistant to the major static discharge effects than the JR/Spectrum. Maybe it was intentional.

The main thing in common is that it seems to be happening more often to the Trex 500 than any other models. If there were 100 Trex 500s and 10 Protos (or any other 500 heli for that matter) and the Trex had 10 static related errors and the Protos had 1 static related error, the percentage of errors would be the same. Yes it is possible that other brands could have similar problems with the static discharge or it could have just been a fluke.

Ideally, we should just find a solution to the problem, of which there are many. If everyone onwning a Rex 500 sent an email complaining to Align they may just come up with a permanent solution to fix the existing problem and prevent it from happening on newer models.

Why is it that the 250, 450, 600 and 700 have so few reports of static discharge issues?

Ted

I always have fun. Some times are more fun than others.

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01-17-2009 03:15 PM  9 years agoPost 28
FlaG8r

rrElite Veteran

Florida

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Couple of points I'll throw out there for discussion...

*To the original poster...you mentioned the ESC was blinking. Do you check everytime you plug in your battery that your light is solid? If you accidentally touch batt to ESC and don't fully plug in, you'll get this. Maybe it was flashing the whole time?

*I thought during Static issues, you get a full lock out, how could you of hit throttle hold?

*My "poll" that I have going is about 50/50 right now, but again, think about the thousands of people out there flying 500's who don't post here and we never hear about there problem free flights. I would argue if it was a HUGE problem that there would be many more people on here talking about it, not 10 or 20.

*You have all seen that you tube video where the guy runs a current checker over the tail and it lights up...I also tried this, and yes, it blinks like wild near the tail even with a light hand spin on the blades. But so what? Does that mean that my heli is going to fall out of the sky bc the rubber is causing some static electricity near the tail?

I really feel that if the problem was directly caused by static electricity and so many people's helis were crashing Align would hear about it and make some changes. In fact, I'll call them Monday just for shi$s and giggles.
Any thoughts?

Life is tough, it's tougher if you're stupid

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01-17-2009 08:32 PM  9 years agoPost 29
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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think about the thousands of people out there flying 500's who don't post here and we never hear about there problem free flights
But, by the same token, we don't hear about the BAD flights from those who never post, either.

The poll is not scientific, and even at that, it's a 50/50 result. I suspect were you to run the same poll about ALL of the OTHER belt-driven tail helis on the market, you would NOT see anything close to a 50/50 split. This IS a phenomenon unique to the belt-driven 500. I was very skeptical at first, even posting a couple of threads that tried to shed doubt on the theory of static discharge being the culprit.

But in my old age, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's real, and it affects the 500 much more often than it should. I've seen evidence of the belt rubbing on the inside of the boom after only two flights.

I'd rather fly than have to worry about random radio glitches. I didn't want to, but in the end, I spent the extra $80 on the TT upgrade to eliminate a potential disaster.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-17-2009 08:48 PM  9 years agoPost 30
FlaG8r

rrElite Veteran

Florida

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Looking further into this so I'm checking out that OTHER website...and it's incredible, they have one posting about the ESD issue with 677 posts on the topic and are you ready for this....63,429 views! Wow.

Life is tough, it's tougher if you're stupid

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01-17-2009 09:06 PM  9 years agoPost 31
Rockohaulic

rrElite Veteran

Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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Yes I did check the RX before the flight, and it was a solid amber light. Right after the piro glitch, it was blinking.

Anyway, I switched out the TT last night and got 2 successful flights on it last night. Went out this morning and got 2 more successful flights on it. Hopefully it is a thing of the past!

And yes, it seems like it has a bit more hang time.

Can't wait to try a full auto with this thing. That should be a few moments of pure excitement!

Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know

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01-17-2009 09:52 PM  9 years agoPost 32
Funky Trex

rrElite Veteran

Westerville, OH - USA

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The 500 autos pretty good. This was my first day shooting autos with mine.

http://www.vimeo.com/2863009

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02-20-2009 06:30 PM  9 years agoPost 33
jadams

rrKey Veteran

East coast USA

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I read on HF that you should run a ground wire from the bearing on the tail mount pully to the frame. The issue is that the whole tail is isolated from the frame due to the plastic tail mount. This allows the static to build up in the belt and boom. By grounding the metal bearing and front tail gear to the frame or motor mount, in theory should eliminate the discharge. I am also running an additional ground wire from my ESC to the motor mount.

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02-20-2009 10:27 PM  9 years agoPost 34
tacoturbo

rrApprentice

Kauai, Hawaii

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This is all pretty interesting. I'm experiencing a tail glitch that I can't explain. I have no Idea if its a static issue or not. For the last 3 months I've had a intermittant twitch that always goes tail left if hovering tail in. I've sprayed my belt with silicone,lube and thats about it. I've never had this problem before. My belt is fairly tight so I know its not slipping. Maybe I'll swap out my rx for another one to see if it still occurs. Here the humidity almost always hovers around 75 to 80 percent.

TT

I don't do 3D....no wait. Oh thats right, I can't do 3D!

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02-20-2009 10:33 PM  9 years agoPost 35
Rockohaulic

rrElite Veteran

Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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Here the humidity almost always hovers around 75 to 80 percent.
Every time I've seen someone have an issue, they are from a dry area like CA. I doubt you are experiencing the static glitch issue in the beautiful, humid state of Hawaii.

When I experienced my static issue, it was so dry that I would get out of my car, and the door would zap the crap out of me!

Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know

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02-21-2009 12:34 AM  9 years agoPost 36
dave75d

rrKey Veteran

Jacksonville, FL

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this means you may have some belt driven parts for sale cheap, no?

ten grand in helis and all i can do is hover

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02-21-2009 12:40 AM  9 years agoPost 37
Ken4

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Does the glitch happen on a Futaba 2.4ghz FASST also?

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02-21-2009 01:16 AM  9 years agoPost 38
hovercraft

rrApprentice

USA

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Rock, what ESC/BEC were you using and at what output voltage did you have the BEC set to?

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