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Blade CP+ › Original Blade CP Problems
01-15-2009 01:15 AM  9 years agoPost 1
pro-tour69

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Michigan

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Hello Everyone,

I have an original Blade CP that has the Esky B/H upgrade, the GWS direct drive tail mod and the Century one way main gear. She has been sitting on the shelf for quite a while and I decided to dust her off this past weekend and fly her.

I decided to check blade pitch and tracking before flying and was surprised to find pitch was pretty far off from where it should be. I used two pitch gauges and adjusted everything so in regular mode pitch is at 0 & +10. (I ran out of adjustment before I could get -1) In idle up my readings are +/- 8. I know it's not what the manual says but I figured it was close enough. After making the adjustments, I now have 2 problems.

Problem 1:
I did an initial blade tracking check figuring their wouldn't be any issues since I used pitch gauges to adjust everything and from zero throttle to half everything was fine but any higher throttle and the blades went out of alignment. I tried adjusting them but even turning the ball link a half turn resulted in the low blade becoming the high blade. I went back and forth for a while but finally gave up and decided to fly it to see what would happen.

Problem 2:
After all the pitch adjustments the helicopter won't get higher than a few feet off the ground at full throttle.

Possible Solutions:
I haven't torn the head apart yet but with tracking ok until half throttle makes me think something might be cracked in either the B/H links or the head itself.

The motor is probably 1-1/2 years old with quite a few flights on it so maybe it's just coincidence that the motor is worn out.

Other than that, I don't know what else could be wrong which is why I thought I would ask the group for help/suggestions on anything else that I should look at or to confirm my thoughts.

Thanks in advance,

Scott

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01-15-2009 03:32 AM  9 years agoPost 2
briangp

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Buzzard's Bay, MA USA

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The motor is cheap enough to just get another one.... however I've had mine close to going out before, squeakin all to hell and I just threw a drop or so of electric motor oil (3 in 1 type) on the shaft and she ran like new. Might be worth a shot and see if it works.

I'm no expert on micro-heli's but I am a certified troubleshooter on full size jets and my gut says that if your head appears to be together with no loose parts than you might have an issue in your TX programming. What TX are you using? Might be worth a look into your swash setup.

I could be preachin to the choir here and you already know all this but thats my two cents.

All else fails try bladecprepair.com Maybe there something on there.

I need one of those to fly in my office. Tried to fly my .90 in there but man is my wife pissed now!

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01-15-2009 04:35 AM  9 years agoPost 3
tutelar-rc

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Nobleton, Ontario - Canada

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For the tracking issue, this is not abnormal for wood blades. Don't worry about it, go and fly! (when you correct the power problem).

My vote is the motor going as well...

BTW, I think the stock settings are +/- 12 degrees, so you may not have the pitch required to take off with a weakening motor (although too much pitch will just bog down a failing motor).

Let us know how you make out!

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01-15-2009 06:42 AM  9 years agoPost 4
itsjojo

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North East Pennnsylvania

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Not sure by your post if you have the CP plus or not. If the original CP is what you have, and are you running 9v-NMH and not 3 cell lipos at 11.1v? I put one of my CP's together to sell online with a nine volt nickle metal battery and this thing did not get more than three feet in the air. I too would bet the motor is going. The ten degrees pitch you indicated in normal mode should work fine as a test but the Stunt mode being +/- 8 seems a little marginal. I never set any heli up under 9 degrees in any mode.
used two pitch gauges and adjusted everything so in regular mode pitch is at 0 & +10. (I ran out of adjustment before I could get -1) In idle up my readings are +/- 8.
I know you tried for the -1 in normal mode... keep in mind that she will descend slowly in normal mode with 0 pitch at low stick. Most likely the nose will even be rocking due to low head speed. Once you get her set up better you may want a little more negative in normal mode. That way she will descend better with more head speed and control.

A little more tuning and troubleshooting and you'll be back in action. Isn't it fun?
Jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-15-2009 01:08 PM  9 years agoPost 5
pro-tour69

rrNovice

Michigan

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Update to Questions Asked
After reading through the posts, I thought I would answer some of the questions that have been asked and ask a few more myself.

Helicopter Version: Original Blade CP (since it's so old their isn't a listing in the drop down selection to pick it)

Transmitter Type: Original radio that came with the helicopter.

Battery Used: 3-cell lipo.

My New Questions:
Since I can't shorten my pitch links anymore to adjust blades down to -1 @ zero throttle, if I lower the swashplate by adjusting the servo links won't that take away pitch at full throttle?

Staying with the pitch theme, what things can I do to get to +/- 12 in idle up mode? My first thought is to move the servo link one hole outward on the arm but I think that will cause binding at full travel.

Thanks again,

Scott

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01-15-2009 03:29 PM  9 years agoPost 6
itsjojo

rrKey Veteran

North East Pennnsylvania

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I am so sorry this is so long. But I tripple checked it.
3 cell lipo is good! That NMH pack just didn't cut it.
Being that you have the stock radio is good in this case. It makes it easier with it's set programing. Meaning there is no faulty user programing that might be the case with programmable radio Tx.

This "pitch mix up" may be caused by the swash plate "height" being off. I went through this when I was learning and was stumped by it. Through various repairs your swash may have been readjusted and not set at the right height.

If you adjust the servo links (all 3 at the same amount)to make the swash plate higher you will give more negative - blade pitch. (had to check this on my own CP Pro to be sure)If you lower the swash via the servo links you will be giving more positive + blade pitch.

You could try this, it's not that hard, don't let it worry you.

1)I would unplug both motors from the 4n1 / or 3n1 which ever you have to keep you safe.

2)Test the heli, and make sure that both motors are not going to power on and chop anything up.

3 find your idle up switch on the top of the radio and switch it to idle up (again making sure your motors will not spin up)

With the motors unplugged in idle up you can change/measure the pitch curves. Idle up programing is set at "0" degrees at mid stick. This is the most important thing to remember.

4) Place left stick at mid point, exactly half way.(this is the critical position to set up the blade-pitch. Check all 3 servo arms, they should be sticking out in the 3o'clock or 9 O'clock positions, they should not be pointing up or down if the left stick is at the exact middle of its travel. Just a hair off you can get away with.

5)Next: left stick still at mid point, in idle up, level the swash plate if it looks tilted by adjusting the servo links. Make sure its level (both front to back and side to side) while Mid-left-stick, and idle up.

5a)Now before the next step adjust both of you pitch links so they have a 1/16" or a 2mm gap between them, you should be able to see the silver threads. This is basically how they came originally. This will at least get them to the ball park. You don't want them tight together. You can fine tune them in the tracking or blade pitch measurement process.

6 Now in idle up, at mid left stick you can take a blade-pitch reading. It should read ZERO. If it dose not, your swash height is off. It will either read negative numbers or positive numbers.

If it reads negative numbers - You need to ad positive by moving the swash plate down while keeping it level.
If it reads positive numbers - you need to ad negative by moving the swash-plate up while keeping it level.

To move the swash up/down - remove all 3 servo links from the swash-plate and twist the plastic links ccw for up/ cw for down in 1/2 turn increments (do this one link at a time to keep thing in order) and fasten each link after twisting it to keep track of things.
Take pitch readings again at Left-stick-mid-point and idle up. You may have to do this a few times to get the swash-plate in position. The swash plate will be in the correct height when you read "0" pitch @ mid-left stick & idle up.

The key here is to always keep a Zero Blade Pitch reading at mid-left-stick in Idle up. This is key If you need to you can adjust both pitch links to give "0" degrees at mid/stick in idle up. If you are very exact with the pitch readings you may find your blades turn out with perfect tracking. That's the cool part.

Always take pitch settings in Idle up mode with motors unplugged!!!. Never in Normal mode since the Transmitter's blade-pitch setting are not 0 at mid stick. At least this is way the pro is set up.

This process should give you even pitches at left-stick-up and left stick down. I believe your manual indicates +/-12

This process gets very easy and can be done in a 10 minutes when you get used to it.

P.s. If anyone finds any errors in this let me know and i'll fix them promptly.
jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-15-2009 07:59 PM  9 years agoPost 7
briangp

rrApprentice

Buzzard's Bay, MA USA

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I still wouldn't throw out the idea that it could be the transmitter. I only had mine a month before my throttle pot was bad. They're cheap. See what jojo's x-shooting brings ya.

I need one of those to fly in my office. Tried to fly my .90 in there but man is my wife pissed now!

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01-15-2009 08:16 PM  9 years agoPost 8
itsjojo

rrKey Veteran

North East Pennnsylvania

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Yes, Briangp is right! I forgot to mention that earlier, I thought you might have a Dx6 or 7. I personally have had 2 Eflight transmitters with bad pots or potentiometers. I noticed when I touched the metal knob on the right stick the heli jumped and twitched a lot. Kinda like some static electricity problem.
Whew! so many things to figure out.

Thanks Briangp.

It gets frustrating hunting for problems but when it all comes together it's worth it.
Jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-17-2009 06:33 PM  9 years agoPost 9
pro-tour69

rrNovice

Michigan

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Another Update..
In response to Jojo's suggestions regrading the position of the servo arms being @ 3 & 9 o'clock positons when in idle up and mid-stick (zero pitch)

Jojo,

See pics below but I can't get them at those positions. The close as I can come are shown in the pics.

The servos are stock blade. The position in the second pic is where I have flown the little guy so my thinking is to just go ahead and re-do all my pitch sittings based on your outline from a couple of days ago.

What do you think??

Thanks,

Scott

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01-17-2009 11:56 PM  9 years agoPost 10
itsjojo

rrKey Veteran

North East Pennnsylvania

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Hey Scott,
This is a typical problem that can easily be resolved with a programmable tx.

I think in the picture on the left, you may be able to remove the servo arm and reposition it more level. To do this make sure your servo is powered up, left stick at mid position and idle up. The problem is with the splines, they don't always match up. Those servo arms can be a little off. I get them as close as I can then adjust the subtrim (in my Dx7 Tx). You won't have any subtrim in the original transmitter. In your case just get them as close as you can and you will just adjust the trim on your first hover after readjusting everything. On my CP Pro I could never get them perfect.

Watch your swash plate travel up and down. You really want that swash plate to stay as level as possible. If you pump the pitch (left stick up and down) in flight, and the swash can be seen leaning near top or bottom of its travel, your heli will not go straight up and down. It will kinda veer off course when you giving up and down input.

Another precaution I take is to check servos for stripped gears. With the power off. push/pull on servos moving the servo arms up and down. They should feel smooth and consistent. If you have any damaged gears in there you will feel a notchy feeling. Then you need to repair or replace the servo. I replaced servos in a three set unit so they all had the same amount of wear. (not completely necessary)

I'll check in and see how you make out.
Jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-18-2009 04:03 AM  9 years agoPost 11
NoLuckChuck

rrApprentice

Leesville, LA

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Also, just a note. When you adjust the heli for level flight in a hover, do not adjust the transmitter trim. If it is drifting to the right, lengthen the right link one turn and shorten the left link one turn, to compensate. Do this one turn at a time to the heli almost sits motionless with no input once you find the "sweet hover spot." If it goes forward, lengthen the link in the front one turn at a time and shorten the links in the rear one turn at a time together with the front. Do them at the same time and do the opposite if the heli drifts to the rear. Do not use the transmitter trims at all. Be sure to check the level of the swash at full pos and neg collective. You may have to compromise to balance it out. The trick is definitely a programmable transmitter. Unbelievably better. Any questions, let me know. Good luck. When you get the heli sorted out it is quite nice.

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01-18-2009 12:12 PM  9 years agoPost 12
itsjojo

rrKey Veteran

North East Pennnsylvania

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NoLuckChuck,
That's a very good point.

Jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-22-2009 06:51 PM  9 years agoPost 13
chuanist

rrNovice

Berkeley, California

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About Pitch: one small point
If by any chance you managed to ding the spindle shaft one of the last times you flew the tracking will not be accurate no matter what you do to the links.

The old 'turn the installed spindle with an allen wrench' trick will reveal moderate to severe shaft bends. However the shaft can be very slightly bent—enough to throw off tracking—but undetectable unless you remove the blade grips and compare it carefully to a true edge, such as the handle of a vernier caliper or other accurately machined piece of metal. Or another spindle (E-flite, Trex, etc.) that is known to be straight and true.

unlicensed helicopter nut

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