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Blade CP Pro › Blade CP jumpings
01-13-2009 06:56 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Just want to validate my theories.
I have a heli which was originally Blade CP. Now it is all brushless, separates, with Microheli head. It flies more or less nice, except, that it has a tendency to 'jump'. Kind of sticky collective or jumpy collective. It jumpled awful, until I reversed grips on a head from leading to trailing (or vice-versa, I do not remember). Major jumping disappeared, but still there is a little. I think that some jumping relates to a weared ball bearings in a head, which does not provide smooth rotation of blades, extremely when centrifugal force is applied.

What do you think? I plan to change ball bearings in blade grips and to see what happens. Still it would be nice to hear some thoughts about jumps.

Oh and one more: Heli wobbled, until I inserted shims in a head. Now it is OK. I guess it should be reveresed, stiffening head should lead to wobbling at low head speed?

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01-13-2009 07:37 PM  9 years agoPost 2
itsjojo

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North East Pennnsylvania

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Some things to look over
I'm not familiar with the Microheli head. But some things I would check.

Wobbling where the nose bounces up and down is a characteristic of low head speed. What head speed are you running? A tachometer would yield some good info here.

Head speed and Collective pitch
Very high head speed requires lower collective settings. If you are running a computer radio like Dx6 or 7 as an experiment try lowering your swash settings to give less collective pitch. I start at +/-9 then increase until comfortable. My setting will depend on head speed.

Smoothness in the head
check by hand for smooth operation of the up and down swashplate movement of your MH head. All bearings should be silky smooth in that head. Notchy feeling in the blade grips is a no-no and should be corrected.

I have had 1 bad swash servo cause sticky head symptoms. While the servos are powered down,l I push the arms up and down to check for smooth operation. You will feel any stripped gears while doing this. I have helped 2 fellas diagnose their sticky collective only to find that it was related to bad servos.

Very important to check that the swash plate is level at mid stick with blades at 0 pitch. Swash should go up and down PERFECTLY LEVEL. Take note to see if any of the 3 swash balls moves more than the other when pumping the collective up or down.

I have heard that head is very sensitive too. It should be controllable though.
Hope this helps
Jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-13-2009 08:31 PM  9 years agoPost 3
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Thanks!
I cannot do tach now (my tach works only at day light, which is not the case for me).

Quote:
Head speed and Collective pitchVery high head speed requires lower collective settings. If you are running a computer radio like Dx6 or 7 as an experiment try lowering your swash settings to give less collective pitch. I start at +/-9 then increase until comfortable. My setting will depend on head speed.

I have DX7. Do you mean to reduce swash throw? Making collective less sensitive to the throttle up and down?

I will check the rest for sure.

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01-13-2009 09:04 PM  9 years agoPost 4
itsjojo

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North East Pennnsylvania

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Now sure what level skills your at, I don't mean to burden you with things you may already know.

Yea!
[SWASH MIX] menu

change "PIT." to "reduce swash throw"

Reduce your pitch to 9 + or -. Measure this with a pitch gauge. Hope you have one.?. This should be kinda soft. Doing this will test your heli. If the heli is less jumpy and gets better or if you find the collective soft then it may just be too much collective. I do this with other helis on high powered helis. You can bump up the collective pitch on the [SWASH MIX] menu until the collective becomes responsive enough for you. Not saying this is your total problem, but it's a test to let you know a little of what is going on with your setup.

I'm searching for a link to videos that may help you... I'll send it along in a few minutes.
Jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-13-2009 09:09 PM  9 years agoPost 5
itsjojo

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North East Pennnsylvania

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Not sure what level you at, if you need some help with head setup I can recommend these links.

You'll need to Register if you haven't already and watch these videos if you want to learn more on head setup. This helped me a lot.

http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath...CCPM_Part_1.wmv

http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath...CCPM_Part_2.wmv

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-13-2009 09:58 PM  9 years agoPost 6
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Thanks for info. I will definitely take a look at videos and play with collective throw. I hope it will give me some info.

Actually the question was kind of another nature. Sorry, that I put it unclear. Let me rephrase it.

My other helies, which have thrust bearing in blade grips stay in the air very solid, no jumpings. I can go even out of sticks for a short period of time (very short though). Microheli Blade CP head does not have thrust bearings and it experienced crashes. I do not remember exactly, but it looks to me, that it was less jumpy some time ago. So it seems that it started to be jumpy after crash.

More over, I installed used alum head on by HBK2 with blade grips without thrust bearing. HBK2 started to experience wobbling, raising as head speed reduced. On top it started to have vibration. (On a plastic head before it was all fine). After I replaced alum grips with stock plastic ones, but with thrust bearing (they are almost new), everything was OK, no wobbling, no vibration, very solid and smooth). When I took alum grips from head, linked them by shaft and tried to rotate pulling grips very hard as blades do, I feel that rotation is not smooth.

After that I look at Blade CP and started to think that it is very similar. So I started to think that weared bearings in blade grips give me such effects.

What do you think?

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01-13-2009 11:16 PM  9 years agoPost 7
itsjojo

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North East Pennnsylvania

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If you crashed it may be a whole different story. You may have a bent spindle or shaft. Did you inspect and test these parts?

Spindle= remove one main blade and use a hex driver to rotate the spindle watching if the grips move up and down indicating a bent spindle.

Main shaft is more obvious. Either spin the rotor or wind up the motor and see if the shaft is bent.

I am not really sure what you have done to check for damaged parts from the crash.

re-reading your post it seems your Microheli head may have some problem. After you crash you should check everything to be sure it is all balanced with no damage.

Hope this helps
Jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-13-2009 11:53 PM  9 years agoPost 8
balbs

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Los Angeles, CA

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Mine did that. If you don't touch the cyclics, it hovers fine. As soon as you do...it starts jumping. Turns out it was the crappy stock servos. I replaced them with better quality futabas that cost the same and never had the problem since. Those e-flite servos suck. While it may look like it's moving okay on the bench, in the air with load seems to be another story.

Balbs

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01-14-2009 01:03 AM  9 years agoPost 9
itsjojo

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North East Pennnsylvania

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Mine did that. If you don't touch the cyclics, it hovers fine. As soon as you do...it starts jumping.
That is a good test as well. Follow what Balbs says. See if you notice the erratic fight when you touch a particular stick on your transmitter. I have personally see the right stick (cyclic inputs) faulty 3 times. End result was faulty servos.
Jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-14-2009 02:40 AM  9 years agoPost 10
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Thanks for your input. I came home and checked what was suggested. Actually thanks for pointing out about pitch throw. It was very low. I forgot that I set it that way. I increased it. Now it is better in climbing - rocket.

Servos are fine, I have HS56HB and I already changed stripped gears there on a couple of them. At least I do not see them twitchy.

Shafts are stright as they can be. I installed brand new after the last crash. Head sits tight on a shaft.

It is not that jumpy-jumpy. It is pretty precise. I hover and circle in about 2.5mx2.5m room pretty safely. Just in comparison with my other helis, it is less stable in altitude. I compare to HBK2, Outrage G5 and QJ EP8 (size of Trex500). (Not that I fly EP8 in that small area - just tests of build). The difference between all these helis is head construction and trust bearing on blade grips. To be honest I did not check bearings in grips thoroughly - that's I think is a problem.
Though, I'd listen to your experience with big interest.

Maybe I try to solve unsolvable for this size and weight and a room full of turbulence when I fly there. Though being perfectionist, I am not completely happy with this jumps.

I will double check servos again.

Does anybody has experience from V3 head from http://www.cnchelicopters? It is different construction then 'traditional' Blade CP one.

Thanks again!

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01-14-2009 03:31 AM  9 years agoPost 11
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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I always talk, that collective mind is better then single one.

Thanks everybody for pointing on pitch throw and servos.
I never liked that front servo was creeping a bit, very little bit, but did not pay much attention. Always - will look later. After increasing pitch throw, I decided to recenter swash, thus shifting a bit servo to see how it goes.

So I did. Even after not perfectly tracking blades (I can hardly do it in electric light) and levelling swash by test flights, heli stays in one place. I think jumping solved.
Yes, I know, it is good to change servo or gears there.

Thanks for the help! Much appreciate!

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01-14-2009 09:31 AM  9 years agoPost 12
itsjojo

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North East Pennnsylvania

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Reading your last post it really sounds like your trouble shooting the right things and doing a good job. I will tell you in my experience that the Blade CP Pro is a devilish little heli to control for newer pilots. Even when set up correctly you MUST keep on those sticks to keep her in a hover. I fly the DX7 radio and if my radio settings are a little off it makes it much more difficult to fly.

I find that when I take the time to balance the blades, the head without the blades, it aids in running much smoother. I have other larger helis, even a Nitro heli that all seem to take less tinkering. Tinkering with the CP Pro seems to be the nature of small helis.

Not sure if you tried the new Eflite head? The reason I ask is that it does have thrust bearings. I think I am going to order one today.
Here is the link
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Product...ProdID=EFLH1176
Keep up the good work
Jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-14-2009 02:37 PM  9 years agoPost 13
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Thanks. I did not try head you pointing, though it looks interesting.
I actually think of this head: http://www.cnchelicopter.com/servle...DX300-V3/Detail
I am not sure I like Microheli head much.

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01-14-2009 04:56 PM  9 years agoPost 14
balbs

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Los Angeles, CA

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I installed the new e-flite metal head. Haven't had the chance to try it yet though

Balbs

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01-14-2009 07:08 PM  9 years agoPost 15
itsjojo

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North East Pennnsylvania

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I installed the new e-flite metal head. Haven't had the chance to try it yet though
PICTURES, PICTURES, PICTURES!
FLIGHT-REPORTS, FLIGHT-REPORTS, FLIGHT-REPORTS!

Love to know hot it works! Let us know, would you?
Jojo

JoJo
Foreseeing My Flybarless Future!

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01-20-2009 04:23 PM  9 years agoPost 16
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Some continuation.
I discovered that my blades were unbalanced. After balancing, jumping peactically disappeared. I still have servos creeping when I hold heli by head (flybar) and after moving of throttle (motor in on hold for sure). I intend to change them.
Maybe this info will be useful for somebody.

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01-22-2009 05:05 AM  9 years agoPost 17
R38133

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USA

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Throw that microheli head in the garbage!!!!!!!

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