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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › could it have been saved?
01-13-2009 04:26 AM  9 years agoPost 1
Igor-sik-corski

rrApprentice

Hopatcong, NJ- U.S.A.

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OK, here goes!!

A few years back I was watching a guy fly a predator gasser,

I am not sure how but the tail box came off in mid flight at about 150' up in level flight. Given the situation could you go to throttle hold and auto the heli in without it piro'ing out of control?

keep in mind the main rotors did not lock up, seemed that (like most of us) the pilot did not believe what he was seeing. It was as if he froze and let her go in without trying to recover.

I have never had anything like this happen however if I did I would have to think that I would react as if I were in the heli!!!! LOL with that much time and money into a ship I would go down fighting!!

Mike

life is good today

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01-13-2009 04:41 AM  9 years agoPost 2
whirlyspud

rrKey Veteran

USA

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Yes, it could have been saved. The machine would likely rotated one or two revolutions and then stopped if he was quick to hit the hold. I've never lost a whole tail box as far as I can remember, but I have lost the tail hub and stripped the tail gears a time or two. Quick auto saved it each time. Same goes for a failed gyro and tail servo, but this was before driven tails. Driven tail would make it a whole lot harder, and if the spin was anything more than a slow rotation I'd most likely have crashed.

Mike

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01-13-2009 04:45 AM  9 years agoPost 3
bigdog714

rrVeteran

Rochester, MN U.S.A.

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Once you kill the power the body will spin slow enough to control, I have had helis with no tail drive in auto, when you feed in positive to land is where it gets a little tricky keeping up with the spin.

MD 800
Logo 600SE
Logo 14/500 Carbon
Ballistic 700
HD 500V2
Hirobo 50E
Avant 90E

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01-13-2009 04:56 AM  9 years agoPost 4
VANHELI

rrVeteran

Omaha,Nebraska

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I would react as if I were in the heli
I probably would panic, roll the heli inverted and then bail out if I were in it.

There is a guy I fly with here that has a Predator Gasser and I have seen him auto it many times with ease. Staying calm in that situation with enough altitude it should of been fairly easy to bring it down safely, even without tail control it will wind vein and if not totally stop spinning it will slow way down.

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01-13-2009 05:03 AM  9 years agoPost 5
legoman67

rrElite Veteran

Nanoose Bay B.C, Canada

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I lost my tail box on my vibe 50 at ircha when the tail blade ejected causing the box to shear off, i killed the engine and auto it. Considering that i had only done like 2ft autos in real life i managed to save it pretty good. Only the basic crash parts had to be replaced, i even saved the main blades.

I had a scare on one of my very first flights with my old shuttle, i forgot to locktite the pin that holds the tail control rod, of course murphy came by and pulled it out. I was only hovering like a foot off the ground, and i managed to save the heli perfectly(no damage)

But it scared me enough and made me realize the tail is the most important part part of staying in control. Ever since that time ive practiced tail blowouts on the sim. I think that practice saved my vibe from what could have been a disaster..

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01-13-2009 05:08 AM  9 years agoPost 6
Bart B

rrKey Veteran

chicago illinois

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I lost a tail case on my N9 full speed backwards upright,about30 ft. up.
It was lights out before I had a chance to hit hold.

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01-13-2009 06:13 PM  9 years agoPost 7
bigdog714

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Rochester, MN U.S.A.

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It has always amased me that all the problems seem to happen within 30ft of the deck. I lost the bolt for the tail pitch arm on my 600N on the last flight of the season, I couldn't of been more than 20ft off the ground, managed to keep the nose up and only bent the tail boom, broke the landing gear.

MD 800
Logo 600SE
Logo 14/500 Carbon
Ballistic 700
HD 500V2
Hirobo 50E
Avant 90E

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01-13-2009 06:22 PM  9 years agoPost 8
F3CWNB

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Napier, New Zealand

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I saw this happen a number of years ago.

During a comp, while doing a 540 s/turn; exit one tail box & T/tube, the guy just hit T/hold & landed it at his feet & made it all look like part of the act...

'Life' is Looking Up!!!

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01-13-2009 06:33 PM  9 years agoPost 9
Wingman77

rrProfessor

Pulaski Tennessee

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yes that could be saved very easily

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01-13-2009 06:40 PM  9 years agoPost 10
classic

rrElite Veteran

All over the place!

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Henrey Cardwell is the KING of saving helis when they loose the tail, I have seen him save a heli that he hit the ground and knocked the whole boom system off!

At Huntville a few years ago, I saw him land because his x-cell was making a noise {something gear related failing}, I was just teasing him and yelled out "It aint broke YET Henrey" whats he do?? He just grins and goes back to flying 3-D till the tail finally blows then he just auto'ed right in.
Jelous mad skills!!

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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01-13-2009 07:16 PM  9 years agoPost 11
bigdog714

rrVeteran

Rochester, MN U.S.A.

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I belong to a club with Alex Rodreguez, there are times he flies in a costant piro, it just amazes me.

MD 800
Logo 600SE
Logo 14/500 Carbon
Ballistic 700
HD 500V2
Hirobo 50E
Avant 90E

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01-13-2009 08:12 PM  9 years agoPost 12
predatorman

rrVeteran

Falkland Islands

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Its keeping your cool, thats the crucial thing.

I have had a link come off the swash plate before, poor old Predator did some beautiful barrel rolls as she got ever closer to our planets surface.
What amazed me apart from the lack of damage...save for smashed blades and skid struts and one or two things like the main shaft getting bent...was how I reacted...evert time the heli went over I went to negative pitch...just like the sim when I do rolls.
It helped the heli stay upright when it hit.

I had a Trex 450 let go its tail drive belt before now, the capstan cog came off the shaft! It was a case of getting more height and then hitting hold, it autoed quite well but my flare wasnt so good...bled far too much energy out of the rotor, but she was flying the next day

If you can it pays to use a sim to try replicate these things, better to prepare than try practising on the real deal

Quality takes........time!

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01-13-2009 08:26 PM  9 years agoPost 13
USNAviationjay

rrElite Veteran

Houston Tx USA

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Man thats my worst nightmare is losing the tail on my 550 or 600N. I practice and practice on the sim with tial failure and I just cant figure out how to save it.

Im not sure if Phoenix models the effect as well as it could it seems to get faster and faster even after Thold is hit.

I saw my friend Pete at Ft Bend RC flying his Logo 600 inverted literally cutting grass lose his tail (tail belt jumped its roller).. he punched it full negative righted it and autoed it down.. was freaking so impressed.

best save I've ever seen.. no damage at all.

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01-13-2009 09:32 PM  9 years agoPost 14
axemanclint

rrKey Veteran

Cypress, Tx. USA

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Its definitely savable! I'd like to think that i would be able to save it as well. I am pretty darn awesome at autos. Of course its a whole other ball game when its the real thing and your not expecting it. Only way to really know if you can do it is when it actually happens.

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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01-13-2009 09:51 PM  9 years agoPost 15
JetFire

rrKey Veteran

The Golden STATE

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the tail box came off in mid flight at about 150' up in level flight. Given the situation could you go to throttle hold and auto the heli in without it piro'ing out of control?
Yup.. if the tailbox came off.. that would mean the constant tail is disabled but it would of naturaly weathervaned towards the wind. The only way that I know would cause a piro on an auto is when you load your head to much and loose headspeed or your gyro is inop and or dis mounted.


Trex700N Pro
DX8-2.4
Spartan/BL9088

-The ONLY way you fail is when you quit.-

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01-13-2009 09:53 PM  9 years agoPost 16
VooDooX

rrElite Veteran

San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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ive had a 450 3 feet off the ground inverted and the gyro fell off luckily didnt fall enough to hit the blades (lucky zip tiE) i just fliped it positive pitch and landed it was freaking out tho pure instinct kicked in everyone was shocked because i was yelling auto! auto auto! as i noticed it lose all tail power inverted due to gyro fraking out nothing damaged and put a new battery in new foam tape and away i went

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01-13-2009 10:54 PM  9 years agoPost 17
mferraz

rrNovice

Houston, TX

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Practice this on a Sim
In RF4.5, you can put it in stunt mode, ram the tail into the groud by first taking off the tail guard, then touching just the tail into the groud. Then the heli will start spinning real fast. Just mash up the collective all the way. It will spin on the groud, as though it might crash, but just when you think it's going to do no more than that, it will lift off like a rocket, straight up. You can give it some cyclic if you want to really put it in a screwy orientation. Then hit hold. The higher you are the more the tail will slow down until it comes to a steady rotation. If you give it the collective at just the right time, you can land it. Just as you put in the collective, the rotation will slow dramatically.

Note, if this happens in real life, yell out loud to let the other pilots and folks on the flight line know that you don't have it, in case it comes in close or behind the flight line. Just a tip.

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