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Outrage › Outrage 550 gyro interference from motor
01-13-2009 01:38 AM  9 years agoPost 1
carbon-rod

rrNovice

Tom Price, WA, Australia

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Hi guys,

I am having a problem with my new outrage 550 I believe I am getting interference from the motor which causes the tail servo to oscillate during the motor start-up tones, at specific points during motor acceleration and even a lockup during a flight (which ended badly).

I am using a 401 with the 9254 and scorpion 4020-1390. I tried a 120amp scorpion esc as well as 100amp align and both seem to have the same problem.

I also tried completely separating the gyro circuit by using a different receiver, reg, battery a different 401 yet still had the same problem even when the gyro isn’t mounted on the heli, just in vicinity.

I have scoped the output from the receiver which is solid and also routed cables away from the motor/esc but I’m 99% sure the interference is being detected in the gyro and not induced in the cables.

I have mounted it on the boom as per the picture which is far enough away that its not causing the oscillations but its not a preferable mounting position in case of a boom strike.

Has anyone had similar issues? or a simple fix?

short of shielding the gyro with some grounded copper shim I’m not sure what else I can try besides leaving it on the boom...

Any ideas and suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks!

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01-13-2009 02:06 AM  9 years agoPost 2
ckoellikerrrElite Veteran - St. Simons, GA - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Move it up front on top of the servo brackets. You can move the whole gyro tray or just mount it on top of the bracket. I definitely would not leave it where you have it. Also whaat type of tape are you using?

Here is a picture from a build thread over on the "freak"

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01-13-2009 02:25 AM  9 years agoPost 3
carbon-rod

rrNovice

Tom Price, WA, Australia

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That is where I had it originally, I had it mounted straight on the servo brackets without the gyro tray but it was having plenty of problems there.

That would be the preferable place to put it.

I am using regular double sided tape, but I dont think its vibration causing the problems.

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01-13-2009 02:37 AM  9 years agoPost 4
ckoelliker

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St. Simons, GA

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I would try a different tape, try it with and without the tray, then maybe start switching gyros if you have another one.

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01-13-2009 02:41 AM  9 years agoPost 5
HFG

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Toronto, Canada

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You need the gyro to be mounted close to the axis of rotation (aka the main shaft).

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01-13-2009 03:12 AM  9 years agoPost 6
carbon-rod

rrNovice

Tom Price, WA, Australia

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Thanks for your input
I would try a different tape, try it with and without the tray, then maybe start switching gyros if you have another one.
The interference is not from vibration as I have removed the gyro from the heli all together and had it sitting next to the heli however the oscillation still continues. It only oscillates at certain motor rpm points which could possibly be multiples of a resonant interference frequency within the gyro.
You need the gyro to be mounted close to the axis of rotation (aka the main shaft).
Angular acceleration will be the same no matter what point it is mounted on, further out will just incur more acceleration outwards from the centre point which shouldn’t affect the gyro as it should only be sensitive to yaw rate.

I have also tried another 401 which suffers from the same problem so I am pretty comfortable with the gyro being ok and the problem being elsewhere...

Thanks for the ideas...

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01-13-2009 03:32 AM  9 years agoPost 7
jamesppp

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carrollton georgia usa

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2.4Ghz, 72 or 35 FM? Ive never had a twitch from interference on 2.4Ghz Faast. You say it even acts up on another gyro? No wire shorted to a carbon part? Very strange

#:>)*.......................*(<:#

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01-13-2009 04:18 AM  9 years agoPost 8
carbon-rod

rrNovice

Tom Price, WA, Australia

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It's 2.4 FASST, I have separated the entire circuit so there are no shorts to anything. Yes both gyros have the same problem, I don't believe it is interference on the receiver it is actually being induced in the gyro. I put a scope on the output from the receiver and the signal is rock solid no glitching at all.

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01-13-2009 04:33 AM  9 years agoPost 9
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw..

Time to get out the ferrite rings...front mount s/b better, but shield the gyro with brass/steel plate to prevent noise form digital servos affecting it...Tying the 401 down generally has proven a bad idea(for me)...

John.

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01-13-2009 04:54 AM  9 years agoPost 10
carbon-rod

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Tom Price, WA, Australia

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Yeh I was hoping I wouldn't need to encase the gyro but it might end up being the only option besides mounting it on the boom.

Either that or downgrading the motor to something which emits less EMF

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01-13-2009 04:57 AM  9 years agoPost 11
HFG

rrApprentice

Toronto, Canada

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have you tried moving the gyro up front? Mounting the gyro on the boom seems a very poor idea to me.

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01-13-2009 05:04 AM  9 years agoPost 12
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw..

Another thought...The wiring as it is shown seems likely to be picking up noise from the t/r servo...This is a definite feedback loop...

John.

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01-13-2009 06:13 AM  9 years agoPost 13
carbon-rod

rrNovice

Tom Price, WA, Australia

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have you tried moving the gyro up front? Mounting the gyro on the boom seems a very poor idea to me.
Mounting it anywhere within the vicinity of the main frame causes the problem to occur so mounting it on the front doesn't help.
Another thought...The wiring as it is shown seems likely to be picking up noise from the t/r servo...This is a definite feedback loop...
The tail servo doesnt appear to be the one interfering with the gyro as it only happens when the motor is spooled and not when the tail servo is active.

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01-13-2009 06:15 AM  9 years agoPost 14
HFG

rrApprentice

Toronto, Canada

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Possible the bearing on the scorpion are shot ? Metal rubbing on metal causes alot of RF noise.

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01-13-2009 06:26 AM  9 years agoPost 15
carbon-rod

rrNovice

Tom Price, WA, Australia

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Shouldn't be.. The motor has had about a whole 2 flights and the bearings are nice and smooth..

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01-13-2009 07:43 AM  9 years agoPost 16
lithiumstatic

rrVeteran

Tyler, Texas

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post pics of your wiring from several different angles.

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01-13-2009 02:38 PM  9 years agoPost 17
HFG

rrApprentice

Toronto, Canada

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I do not think its an electrical issue. I'm convinced it mechanical in nature. The boom is a long tuned resonate structure, when the motor is running it excited the vibrations in the boom. Once you vibrate a gyro all performance is out the window. Before getting into swapping parts or wiring in all kinds of filter move the gyro to the front where the 2nd optional gyro mount is (Photo of this above ).

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01-13-2009 04:31 PM  9 years agoPost 18
ckoelliker

rrElite Veteran

St. Simons, GA

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He has already stated that he has tried the gyro up front, and below the tail boom mount.

What type of tape arte you using? Is it the 3m red backed double sided tape (grey)?

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01-13-2009 05:54 PM  9 years agoPost 19
vetrider

rrElite Veteran

Daleville, AL (Ft.Rucker)

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Only question I have is... has anyone OTHER than owners of the SILVER framed 550's had EMI/EMC problems.

Yes, I have my reason for this question. Years of radiation testing of Army helicopters has taught me a thing or two.

Nolan

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01-13-2009 05:59 PM  9 years agoPost 20
Charley Stephens

rrVeteran

Trussville, Al.

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Only question I have is... has anyone OTHER than owners of the SILVER framed 550's had EMI/EMC problems
No my son and myself run the silver frames.

I have seen this issue some place and cannot find it you have access to anothe ESC to try?

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