RunRyder RC
WATCH
 64 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 69150 views Post Reply
Home🌌Off Topics🌌Off Topics Main Discussion › Downwind faster than the wind
10-12-2008 05:41 PM  12 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Downwind faster than the wind
We've discussed a wind powered vehicle that goes directly downwind faster than the wind on this forum - and as I recall, there were plenty of non-believers.

I'm trying to get the Mythbusters to do a segment on this (and prove or disprove it for all). But I don't have anyone on that forum pointing out the reasons it should not work. Anyone willing to have the other side of the debate there?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2008 06:04 PM  12 years ago
scatbass

rrNovice

Hiram, GA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Pictured/diagrams would help a bit. Downwind meaning - you have a vehicle that is moving the same direction as the wind (ie, the wind is blowing this vehicle in some manner)...and, upon reaching max velocity, the vehicles groundspeed is greater than the groundspeed of the wind.

Hmmmmm...


Mike
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2008 06:28 PM  12 years ago
Inspector Fuzz

rrKey Veteran

NLA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
What force would allow the pushing wind to overcome the resistance of the wind that the vehicle will encounter once it starts to move faster than the "pushing" wind?

I can see how a wing being pushed downwind could generate a lifting force and pull the vehicle faster down wind.

Have you tested this, outside of theory?

Anyone who has sailed knows you can go faster than the wind on a downwind tack, but directly downwind?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2008 06:59 PM  12 years ago
Boidman (RIP)

rrKey Veteran

The Home Stretch

MyPosts All Forum Topic
http://forum.mythbustersfanclub.com...ic,12948.0.html

There are two different and interesting videos in the topic. One is of the specifics, the other is on a mild tangent, but still intended to help with adjusting the thought processes.

Those folks run a very tight ship, compared to Mark Ryder's slowly increasing leniency.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2008 07:00 PM  12 years ago
holzback

rrKey Veteran

noblesville IN United States

MyPosts All Forum Topic
this would kind of be like a row boat in the river, if the boat is going downstream, does it go faster than the current? i dont think it does.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2008 07:01 PM  12 years ago
Boidman (RIP)

rrKey Veteran

The Home Stretch

MyPosts All Forum Topic
What about a sailboat in a river?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2008 07:04 PM  12 years ago
holzback

rrKey Veteran

noblesville IN United States

MyPosts All Forum Topic
i think a sail would make it go faster though.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2008 07:12 PM  12 years ago
TachyonDriver

rrKey Veteran

Chipping, Lancs, UK

MyPosts All Forum Topic
If directly downwind also involved going downhill, then the vehicle would have the added component of gravity and thus would go faster....I think Little Spinning Bundle of Joy® DON'T DISS THE DINO!!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2008 07:32 PM  12 years ago
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Boidman has the right link. And yes, they are *extremely* rigid about keeping the discussion technical and not personal.

The thread is here: http://forum.mythbustersfanclub.com...ic,12948.0.html

I will be happy to answer all questions there (as I have on this forum in the past).

But basically, yes, it's a vehicle that will go directly downwind, faster than the wind, steady-state, powered only by the wind.

And yes, it is somewhat akin to a sailboat tacking downwind, faster than the wind. If you think about it, you could take two tacks downwind, faster than the wind, to arrive at a destination directly downwind faster than the wind gets to that same destination.

But I really need skeptics, or at least curious minded folks, over there to get this thread over the hump so the Mythbusters decide it's worth doing a segment on.

Thanks.

P.S. as far as going downhill (which this vehicle isn't doing), row boats or sailboats on a river, etc. this topic covers all those areas and more.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2008 07:39 PM  12 years ago
jcrack_corn

rrVeteran

End of Time

MyPosts All Forum Topic
it will not fly. no windspeed.------------------------------------------------------------------
do it inverted
------------
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2008 10:10 PM  12 years ago
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

MyPosts All Forum Topic
💎Sustaining Member
fwiw..

Is it on a treadmill??

BC
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2008 03:41 AM  12 years ago
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Great - the MENSA club has arrived.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2008 04:49 AM  12 years ago
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

MyPosts All Forum Topic
💎Sustaining Member
Good question.

Can't claim to have figured it out, but have a close look a the pitch of the prop and the direction of rotation tward the end of the first push. It's backwards (if you assume the tail wind is spinning it)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJpdWHFqHm0
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2008 05:55 AM  12 years ago
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

MyPosts All Forum Topic
💎Sustaining Member
fwiw..
Let's see..Spork wants a discussion that's technical...One that's not personal..Then makes a personal attack at anyone who jests a bit...Taking oneself too seriously is the first step to ruin..

Seriously...This idea has as much merit as the car that runs on water..(No, I don't mean a boat with wheels)...Conservation of energy is a law difficult to break...If the cart were tacking, perhaps..What I couldn't determine from the video was the directon of the wind relative to the track of the vehicle..If it was not direcly astern, perhaps yes..Otherwise, I'm one of you detractors...

John.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2008 06:08 AM  12 years ago
funflyer2006

rrApprentice

CC, Iowa

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Gonna have to go with drdot on this one.
Conservation of energy is a law difficult to break...I
I don't think the vehicle could ever travel faster than the wind if it traveling parallel to it.
I LOVE MY EVO!!!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2008 08:52 AM  12 years ago
Tintin

rrVeteran

Akershus, Norway

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Another skeptic..

If you go straight down wind faster than the wind, you are in fact going straight against the wind. So far it is not possible to use than oncoming wind to produce more energy than what it takes to propell whatever you are using to go against the wind.
If that was possible today we had no need for oil. You would only have to use a small electric engine to start and then the oncoming wind would give you whatever energy you need to continue.

Untill you have constructed something that will produce more energy than it consumes to move or a perpetum mobile I wouldn't spend too much time pondering it...work on the efficiency of wind generators in stead. Newton has so far been correct and numerous good heads have tried to make the perpetum mobile...

Sorry for the negative input
“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2008 04:47 PM  12 years ago
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Seriously...This idea has as much merit as the car that runs on water..
Then why not come over to the other thread and let me explain how it's possible. Or, if you're absolutely certain it can't be done, we can stay right here, and you can accept my $100K bet, and I'll be happy to demonstrate it.

>> Conservation of energy is a law difficult to break...

Agreed. Which is why I would never even attempt to break it.

>> Otherwise, I'm one of you detractors...

Clearly, but you apparently don't want to see it actually demonstrated by the Mythbusters - or you'd have the debate on the fan club site.

>> I don't think the vehicle could ever travel faster than the wind if it traveling parallel to it.

And yet it does. Care to see it proven?

>>
So far it is not possible to use than oncoming wind to produce more energy than what it takes to propell whatever you are using to go against the wind.
<<

So you really don't want to understand how this is done?

>>If that was possible today we had no need for oil.

If you understood what is being claimed you wouldn't make such comments. If you cared to discuss it on the Mythbusters fan club site you'd get all the answers.

>>
Untill you have constructed something that will produce more energy than it consumes to move or a perpetum mobile I wouldn't spend too much time pondering it...
<<

I'm not interested in over-unity machines. That's even more pointless than making a toy cart that uses wind power to go downwind faster than the wind.

>> Newton has so far been correct and numerous good heads have tried to make the perpetum mobile...

And Newton is still correct. If you care to understand this problem you know where to go.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2008 05:22 PM  12 years ago
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I'm with Tintin on this one. At least for now.

If you go downwind faster than the wind, you are traveling upwind relative to you. So essentially you're making a machine that travels upwind.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2008 05:26 PM  12 years ago
flyboy0413

rrApprentice

Brookfield, CT

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Rotor blade tips go faster than the wind during autorotation. Think about that...
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2008 05:29 PM  12 years ago
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Flyboy, I just did.

Gravity is providing the force.

Take that same heli and put it on the bench with the rotors spinning unpowered and they will slow.

Try again...
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 64 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 69150 views Post Reply
Home🌌Off Topics🌌Off Topics Main Discussion › Downwind faster than the wind
Print TOPIC

 19  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, July 29 - 3:55 am - Copyright © 2000-2021 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online