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08-25-2008 03:45 AM  12 years ago
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AlexFong

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Barinas - Venezuela

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Benzin Motor Fuel Question
Hello Guys,

Today I made my first test fly to my 8301 Bezin Trainer, good words are too much to say here, so I will resume all with 2 words "Just Amazing". But I'm really a newbie with Petrol Motor and today I prepared the first container of Fuel for it just following the Motor manual 25:1, so, I took 12.5 liter for 0.5 liter of Oil, the engine run very very smooth and the temp was really nice too, but I was asking to myself if I can keep the remaining fuel for next and next next weekend? Will the Fuel lose it octane and power? Is recommended or I should prepare less quantity next time? You word would be very appreciated. Really need to hear your veteran advices

Thanks in Advance
Alex Fong
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08-25-2008 05:06 AM  12 years ago
Christopher J

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Kansas City, MO Californian lost in land of Oz

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Keep the fuel.....I've got premixed fuel from several months back that I'm still using with no problems.Christopher J
same as I ever was
"Still all set & Flying the original"
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09-01-2008 06:16 AM  12 years ago
AlexFong

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Barinas - Venezuela

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Thank you so much for the info Crist!!

Regards
Alex FOng
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09-01-2008 08:20 AM  12 years ago
Disciple4123

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USA

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Alex, you are in Venezuela, I know in Brazil, perhaps other places, they run a lot of ethanol. Here in america we run 10% ethanol or less, and fuel can sit for a while with only minor degredation. If your country runs a higher percentage than 10%, I would clear the carb, and let it sit with an empty tank as a precaution. Ethanol attracts water (corrosive), and can harm plastic parts in the carb, if it's content is excessive beyond 10%.
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09-02-2008 05:21 AM  12 years ago
AlexFong

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Barinas - Venezuela

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Alex, you are in Venezuela, I know in Brazil, perhaps other places, they run a lot of ethanol. Here in america we run 10% ethanol or less, and fuel can sit for a while with only minor degredation. If your country runs a higher percentage than 10%, I would clear the carb, and let it sit with an empty tank as a precaution. Ethanol attracts water (corrosive), and can harm plastic parts in the carb, if it's content is excessive beyond 10%.
Eric,
Thanks for the tips!! But I think (almost 100% sure) that we are not using gas fuel with ethanol yet. The common fuel here is 91 and 95 octane and diesel. I'm using 95 octane premixed with Motul syntetic oitl to 25:1. The best 2-stroke syntetic oil I could found local was the this MOTUL SCOOTER EXPERT, don't know how good this it, and stil can't note it quality since I'm a newbie with gas engine. Any good recommendation? Thanks

Alex Fong
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09-02-2008 09:16 AM  12 years ago
Disciple4123

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USA

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OK, there are advantages and disadvantages to too much or too little oil.

Too little oil: upper bearing can fail, bearing seals can leak, piston could scrape.

Too much: piston ring can get jammed out "stuck ring" destroying the engine. Engine becomes sensitive to needle settings, and/or runs bad. Engine ends up running right at a lean setting, then that lean setting destroys the engine.

I have tried many ratios over the years, these engines do very well on 87 octane gas and 3 oz. of amsoil per gallon (40:1). I cannot comment on your oil brand, never heard of it. Octane is a fuel's resistance to fire up until it reaches a certain temperature, so high octane fuel will not pre-ignite when it enters a hot engine (under high compression ratio), and will ignite when the spark plug hits it. Low octane fuel can light up early, leading to a knocking sensation. I have run these engines on 60 octane naptha, and did OK, so minimum automotive gasoline octane is fine. It is the opinion of most here that high octane will not help on these engines, a few (including the manual from Zenoah) preach the opposite doctrine, take your pick.
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09-02-2008 08:07 PM  12 years ago
BigRagu

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Utah

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Motor Fuel
It has long been my impression these engines really like the Lower Octane Fuel . . .I have always used plain Pump 87 Octane.

Except for maybe that once when I did try Coleman . . .but even then it has a very Low Octane.

My $0.02 worth,
BigRagu
"Going up and/or Down"
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09-02-2008 11:10 PM  12 years ago
AlexFong

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Barinas - Venezuela

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OK, there are advantages and disadvantages to too much or too little oil.

Too little oil: upper bearing can fail, bearing seals can leak, piston could scrape.

Too much: piston ring can get jammed out "stuck ring" destroying the engine. Engine becomes sensitive to needle settings, and/or runs bad. Engine ends up running right at a lean setting, then that lean setting destroys the engine.

I have tried many ratios over the years, these engines do very well on 87 octane gas and 3 oz. of amsoil per gallon (40:1). I cannot comment on your oil brand, never heard of it. Octane is a fuel's resistance to fire up until it reaches a certain temperature, so high octane fuel will not pre-ignite when it enters a hot engine (under high compression ratio), and will ignite when the spark plug hits it. Low octane fuel can light up early, leading to a knocking sensation. I have run these engines on 60 octane naptha, and did OK, so minimum automotive gasoline octane is fine. It is the opinion of most here that high octane will not help on these engines, a few (including the manual from Zenoah) preach the opposite doctrine, take your pick.
Eric,
Wow! Thank you so much for such a great information. I think I have a little confusion about the premixed table 40:1 and 25:1, are they the same? Cuz I'm premixing 25 Leters of Gasolina with 1 leter of Motul Oil, which is the same as 1 leter of Gasolina with 40cc of Oil. And when you talk about the 40:1 you meant GALON/OZ. ?? Am I right?

And about the low octane fuel unfortunally there is no longer avaible this octane (87) of fuel here in Venezuela. There is 97 and 91 octane only. So, I think I will have to go with 91, at least.

BigRagu,
Also thanks for your comment

Any other advices would be really appreciated.

Cheers
Alex Fong
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09-03-2008 12:52 AM  12 years ago
Disciple4123

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USA

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OK, 3.2 OZ per Gallon is 40:1 A gallon is 128 oz divided by 3.2 = 40.

I do not measure in liters, but the principle is 40 "units" of fuel for one unit of oil.
Pues, 3.2 oz. de aceite por gallon es 40:1, Un gallon (128 oz.) dividido por 40 te da el numero 3.2. Si ud usaba 25:1 estabas poniendo como 5 oz. de aceite por gallon.

En litros: puedes comprar 4 litros de gasolina y poner 0.1 Litro de aceite para 40:1.

Your 91 octane is fine, in America cheap cars run 87 octane, and some european cars need 91. I guess with your country's vast oil production industry, and $0.20 / gallon gas, Venezuela offer 91 as the cheap stuff.
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09-03-2008 02:48 PM  12 years ago
AlexFong

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Barinas - Venezuela

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OK, 3.2 OZ per Gallon is 40:1 A gallon is 128 oz divided by 3.2 = 40.
Eric,

ALRITE!! I get it now. Your spañish is great!! My english sucks

Thanks
Alex Fong
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09-12-2008 08:49 PM  12 years ago
getsummarine

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USA

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Motor Fuel
Why not try 4oz to 1 gallon?
It is a marginal difference, but lubes much better.
I ahve worked on high performance motorcycles for 20+ years and these little adjustments yeild long term results.
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09-12-2008 09:21 PM  12 years ago
AlexFong

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Barinas - Venezuela

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Why not try 4oz to 1 gallon?
It is a marginal difference, but lubes much better.
I ahve worked on high performance motorcycles for 20+ years and these little adjustments yeild long term results
Sounds great!

But still wondering why nobody use the premix as the engine's manual recommends (25:1).

Cheers
Alex Fong
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09-12-2008 10:52 PM  12 years ago
Disciple4123

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USA

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You can survive on 4oz. But, for this application I feel that 3oz is just about right. A damaged engine will be the result of too much or too little oil (read my first post here regarding the advantages / disadvantages). You may also contact Vario, and will probably get a reply in the range of 2-3 oz. from them. I do not know why the engine manufacturer posts that, but very few members here adhere to 25:1, on a helicopter it leads to carbon buildup, stuck rings, and a lean mixture setting to run; which are causes of engine failure

The motorcycle, and especially watercraft experiences posted may not be relevant to a constant RPM helicopter application. I don't have exp with motorcycles so I cannot comment on the needs there...
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