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08-24-2008 10:03 PM  12 years ago
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buster1

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Manhattan, NY

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Furion - 401 Gyro problem
Hi - I am using the 401 gyro with 9257 in the Furion,

I am having problems with the tail kicking out and not staying straight on climb out and 3D maneuvers,

The tail servo is centered and 90 degrees - all set up properly and gyro is in heading hold mode with red light on. Tail Gain is in the appropriate area around 34 on the DX7 radio. I don't think the gain is too high, because its not a fast wag - its kick-outs during climbs and not staying locked-in during 3D.

Is anyone have problems with this and any suggestions? The heli. is flying great - I just have this gyro problem - I don't think its the gyro malfunctioning, but you never know.

Could it also be the ESC interfering with the Gyro. They are not too far apart. ESC and Gyro are located at manufactuer's suggested location,

Thank you,
Jeff
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08-24-2008 10:18 PM  12 years ago
bparro

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indianapolis,in

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How far out is the servo ball on the 9257?
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08-25-2008 12:40 AM  12 years ago
smizzleablizzle

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Long Island

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bump up the gain?
which menu are u using for the gyro setup?
if it is the gyro menu, then u should be at about 74 ish. below 50 is rate mode.
don
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08-25-2008 02:00 AM  12 years ago
buster1

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Manhattan, NY

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the servo ball is the correct length per the instructions,

I am using the DX7 and the only thing I can think is I am not programming the gain correctly,

I am using the gear channel for the sensitivity and thought that if I program the gain to for example, 30 - I really have a gain of 80??

This might be my problem,
Jeff
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08-25-2008 02:09 AM  12 years ago
bparro

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indianapolis,in

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You can run the gain at 50 percent or so with out a wag. Or you can put the servo ball farther out. On my furion Iam using a logitec 2100t and a 9257. The servo ball is at 10.5 mm and the gain is 60 percent. Tail holds like a 90 size.
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08-25-2008 02:26 AM  12 years ago
buster1

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Manhattan, NY

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the 9257 runs fine at 6Volts right - I don't need to regulate down?? correct?
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08-25-2008 02:46 AM  12 years ago
bparro

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I ran mine on 6 volts without an issue.
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08-25-2008 03:15 AM  12 years ago
Horacio

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CA

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I dont know if you caught this or not on Helibuf's webpage:

"Per the building instructions I placed the speed controller and receiver in the specified locations. The speed controller was behind the motor and the receiver was under the battery mount. Now what I came across was there was a bit of speed controller noise the the gyro picked up in this location. After a couple of test flights I ended up moving the rx behind the motor and put the speed controller up front."

(pic)

"Here is the new location for the speed controller and receiver After moving to the new location there was no more noise generated gyro problems."

http://www.helibuf.com/
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08-25-2008 06:35 AM  12 years ago
skidzup

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visalia CA 93277

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Are you're tail blades set at 0 degrees at servo center or do you have some pitch built in? I have always set up my machines with around 5 - 8 degree's at servo center.There are two reasons for this, one even at zero degree's pitch with the blades spooled up there is some torque for the gyro to counter act and it will even up the piro rate due to the fact that we have torque wanting to spin the heli left. Setting the tail up this way allows you to maximize the travel limit on the gyro and minimize the unwanted left pitch.It may be also that your gyro gain is still low. 401's can normally be set in the 60's to 80's as long as the servo arm is not too long.All these micros somehow turned my 450 into my BIG machine!?!?!?
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08-25-2008 02:13 PM  12 years ago
buster1

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Manhattan, NY

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I put the ESC up front under the battery tray and the receiver in the back and that fixed the problem.
I am running a Scorpion 60amp ESC - the new one - I am sure it affects the gyro differently depending on the ESC/gyro combo.
But my esc needed to go up front.
All good now - this is one smooth little heli. Will report back after some 3D flying,
Thanks for all your input,
Jeff
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09-07-2008 04:48 AM  12 years ago
derekandjennys

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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I am having the exact issue you describe. I have a high gain 69 and everything is set well. Thing is I had both speed controls up front from the start.
I have had several gyro issues lately. A 601 that has been bad for awhile turns out the sensor was going bad. I had a Spartan on a 450 that was working great until I built this and put everything on it. I thought something with the heli was not right and it kept letting go where i did about 10 piro autos until the gyro stopped completely. It would move to a servo command but not if you move the tail. I picked up a new one at IRCHA and 30-40 seconds in the air it totally went out. I have put in new reciever, swapped the Align 35 for a Castle 45 and added torroid. Changed to a 9257 and 401.
I have gotten just enough flight time to realize what I am missing and must figure this out. Only constant is the motor and servos. I even had a 401 go bad on another 450 but it is an old one that I think may have had issues all along.
Another issue is i have bent 2 mainshafts in the air. I was running the 6 on 12 but feel the stock mainshaft is too soft for it. Not liking the 11 for the minute or so I tried it. Maybe tweaking the setup will get more out of it. But can't do anything with bent mainshaft and gyro problem. i do fly hard and pull alot of pitch with Vblades but only had the throttle at 90% until I could get the stronger mainshaft. Off topic though, would really appreciate help with the gyro issue.
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09-07-2008 04:59 AM  12 years ago
derekandjennys

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Are you sure the only change you made was the speed control?
Is it working pefectly now for sure?
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09-07-2008 05:12 AM  12 years ago
buster1

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Manhattan, NY

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yes - ESC up front and receiver in back - no affect on gyro - works great!
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09-07-2008 06:43 AM  12 years ago
derekandjennys

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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So what do you reccomend if it is allready there but sounds exactly as you describe.
I have played with gyro settings and belt tension. I believe it is a hair tight now if anything.
maybe I'll put a new 401 in to see if that helps.

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09-07-2008 07:58 AM  12 years ago
Caleb.R

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Australia, QLD, Gold Coast

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I'm having the same problems, mine more so in a hover or lower HS! tail has these random kick outs but fine in idles 1 & 2... weird!
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09-07-2008 08:22 PM  12 years ago
derekandjennys

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Your problem sounds completely different actually. Is the belt tight enough and the Gyro setup well. As in setup mechanically for no drift in Normal mode (HH off)?
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09-07-2008 08:25 PM  12 years ago
derekandjennys

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Is everyones belt guide bearings tight or do they have alot of play in them?
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09-07-2008 08:38 PM  12 years ago
skidzup

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visalia CA 93277

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Mine do have some play,but this is normal of a single radial bearing. Play was there from new and I don't see it being a problem or getting any worse.Also as with any belt they don't have to be as tight as most people think and a looser belt will relieve all the bearings in the system of undo load. Also as far as the gyro problems has anyone tried running the metal sheilding plate that your suppose to run with the 401? I'm running the 770 and if somone were looking to replace their 401 I would highly recomend it.It is also in a solid aluminium case and may be why I haven't had a problem.All these micros somehow turned my 450 into my BIG machine!?!?!?
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09-08-2008 09:25 AM  12 years ago
Caleb.R

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Australia, QLD, Gold Coast

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If your supposed to Futaba would provide one with the 401 kit!

Yeah all is good, gain is down to around 40% now in HH... bizaar but that's what it needs
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09-09-2008 08:03 AM  12 years ago
derekandjennys

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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I have gotten rid of most of the issue.
the biggest thing I believe is the mainshaft is too soft. I had to use the 11 tooth on the 6 or the it was buzzing pretty bad. I believe it was on the edge and reduced gyro performance. The better shaft is supposed to be out any day. Hoping it will run truer and I can try the 12 again. Getting the pitch just right the 11 is still pretty great. But i could never see 10-10 on an 11 being any fun at all.

Next i overlooked the final limit setting and increased it so it binds a little one way but gets full travel both ways.

Then, as per Bens advice I went to the star and 10.5mm. Each change improved it a little and the gain had to be brought down to I think 59 because of the larger arm. It is real close to there but not perfect or as good as I believe it can be.

I was used to a faster tail servo with the Spartan and Hyperion tail blades on a Microheli tail for a large disc. Worked great once setup and is quite different than this.

Curious if anyone has found any improvement with different tail blades. I know these are a hair smaller but the grips are larger.

Also would like to give the new Spartan another try but it is such a pain to setup not being able to make changes at the field.

Seems to be best on the Air Thunder 1800. CG is best and has more punch. I stand them on end for a slightly higher CG and use a couple rubber bands to hold down. They eject well in a crash and fit in with plenty of room either way. Flight time is right there with the larger packs because I don't worry about damaging the cells.
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