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08-23-2008 08:27 PM  12 years ago
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jjvwg

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Thornton, CO

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anyone have this happen?
Took my caliber out for its first flight with some new electronics and exhaust today. I opted for the align pipe and all was running well at first. I richened it up a bit and flew some FF and brought her back down . Nice smoke and temped at 200 degrees. Richened it one more click and took it back up and threw it into idle up. Did some FF and a flip and then all of a sudden the engine started to lean out. I brought it back down as fast as possible and noticed the exhaust vibrating like crazy. Upon inspection the nylon in one of the lock nuts I have on my exhaust bolts was melted and both bolts had loosened up significantly. I tightened them up and tried to restart the engine but nothing happened. I figured the glow plug took a dump and replaced it and still nothing. After that I pulled the exhaust off and looked in at the piston, it had some nice scratches on it that weren't there before this flight. The thing that gets me the most is apparently the exhaust gasket supplied by align was no longer there when I pulled the exhaust off. My guess is that the gasket burned away and the little gap that was now between the exhaust and engine was enough to allow enough vibration to let the bolts back out. I'm going to do a full engine inspection later on this week as im busy starting up school again, but it looks like i might need new internals.
Jeff
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08-23-2008 08:37 PM  12 years ago
yoshgixxer

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york PA usa

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yea it dosnt take long for a engine to fry with the exhaust loose, i have done this twice already,by the time you notice if its out to far its usually to late, you might be able to get lucky and just clean up the cylinder and put a ring on it,or send it back and get it coverd under warranty.the scratches are actually semi melted aluminum and its usually on the exhasut side, thats a good indicator it was way too lean! i doubt the gasket burned away it just blew apart once the header loosened up,

nylon lock nuts are also a bad idea, the exhaust will get hot enough even tuned correctly to melt nylock nuts,thats why most exhaust come with a lock washer and steel nuts,just use red locktite, and you can double up the nuts for extra security, so basicly you toast a engine for 50 cents in crappy nuts
dude..wheres my heli?????ama#902014
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08-23-2008 08:39 PM  12 years ago
Captain Obvious

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Sounds like when it losened up you lost some exhaust pressure, which in turn lowered your fuel pressure, so it leaned out too much? Ive never had that happen, but i suppose its possible. try double nuts on the exhaust. nothing else actually works. locktite melts, nylocks melt... all you can do is lock washers and/or double nut it.

Sorry
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08-23-2008 08:43 PM  12 years ago
Way2slow

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Jeffersonville Ga

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First, I've never used locknuts but if were to, no way would they be nylon, they can't stand the heat. For heat you have to use crimped type locknuts so they are metal on metal.

As for the copper shims, look around where you put the pipe on, you may find them laying on the bench or floor. I've had a pipe blow one out in the middle but I don't think it's likely they totally disappeared while between the pipe and motor.

If that was a fairly new, low houred engine, the heat assorbed into the piston from and extreme lean condition could have easily made it swell enough to scuff the piston/cylinder. The lean condition was probably caused by the pipe coming loose and not supply enough pressure to the tank to keep the fuel going to the engine. As for the not starting, again, no fuel pressure in the tank with the leaking exhaust.

As for the scuffs/scratches, depends on how bad. Minor scuffing probably didn't hurt anything. Heavy scuffing will make the ring stick in the piston and you will notice considerable power loss from the loss of compression. If the motor feels like it still has good compression and performs good, I wouldn't tear it down.
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08-23-2008 08:49 PM  12 years ago
jjvwg

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Thornton, CO

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well I have been using nylocks for a year now on the stock exhaust and never had a problem, guess I'll look for some of the crimped lock nuts and use some red locktite. I have 6 gallons through the engine and I had re-tightened the exhaust before I tried to start it again. The scratches dont look too bad, and there arent too many, ive seen way worse before. Also the piston still moves nicely, I guess I'll try and fly it again next weekend and see how the power is, I guess that will tell me right away if I need to replace anything. Thanks guys.Jeff
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08-24-2008 04:07 AM  12 years ago
yoshgixxer

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york PA usa

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you may still want to through a ring in it if it looks like it has any scratches in it at all, there only about 13-15 bucks..dude..wheres my heli?????ama#902014
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08-26-2008 01:10 AM  12 years ago
rcjon

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Macon, GA

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I haven't yet have a muffler come loose (fingers crossed) but I have had a broken bolt.

A very experienced R/C pilot told me his secret to keeping mufflers tight on glow engines. 1st - throw the gasket in the trash. 2nd - retighten when the engine is warm.
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08-26-2008 01:26 AM  12 years ago
legoman67

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Nanoose Bay B.C, Canada

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i had a muffler come loose because i lost the gasket as well, funny enough, that was the first, and the last time i used a gasket. never had a problem on metal to metal.
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08-26-2008 02:41 AM  12 years ago
yoshgixxer

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york PA usa

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ill 3rd the no gasket..i usually buy used pipes so i never got the gasket..so i never used one and never had a problem!dude..wheres my heli?????ama#902014
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08-26-2008 02:44 AM  12 years ago
jjvwg

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Thornton, CO

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thanks for all the replies guys, this was the first time I used a gasket between the engine and the pipe and things definitely didn't go as i wanted so it will be metal to metal from now on for me. definitely still gonna check into the metal crimp locknuts though and some red loctite though.Jeff
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08-26-2008 06:16 AM  12 years ago
legoman67

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Nanoose Bay B.C, Canada

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yes on the crimp nuts, but n o on the red locktite, if you ever need to drop the engine you will be kicking yourself, blue is plenty..
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08-26-2008 06:42 AM  12 years ago
jjvwg

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Thornton, CO

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yea i was a little worried about that, guess i'll stick with the blue, thanks for the tip.Jeff
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08-26-2008 07:07 AM  12 years ago
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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I'm using a gasket with good results. Metal on metal gives me leakage. Some put epoxy instead of gasket, I tried that once only to have big problems when the time came to get it apart...
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09-22-2008 04:58 PM  12 years ago
H. Wayne S

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Gray, Ga. USA

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jjvwg, you have an Align pipe ? Where did you find a 3mm bolt long enough to screw all the way through the engine and muffler mounts. My Muffler is tapped to accept the 3mm bolt and the muffler side is sloped so a nut will not flush up against the case. how did you tightn the nut.
I have an Align muffler with one muffler hole stripped out. And cannot find a 3mm bolt long enough to do what you did to save my muffler.
Thanks
Wayne
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