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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › The Dynamic Stabilizer : Now an abandoned patent
08-24-2008 10:51 PM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Piroflips would be quite a test of their stabilizing function.

I know they stabilize piros,
for the same reason they do stabilize piros,
I THINK they will stabilize rolls.

They seem to make the bird more responsive to pitch changes,
so I THINK they will stabilize flips.

But mix all that together,
and who knows?

If they did,
that would be the bomb!
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-24-2008 11:14 PM  12 years ago
Muddin_Mavric

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Vesper WI

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i would just like to say keep up the good work and let us know what happens. please dont listen to the people that are sitting there try to say it will never amount to anything just because you cant work out the physics of it on paper.

maybe it will never amount to anything but there is only one way to know for sure. with my belt cp it seems like in FF the nose allways wants to pitch up. i would think adding any form of drag (like your wing) below the CG would help keep the nose down. for me i would think that would be a plus.

with my raptor 50 it dont seem like the nose wants to pitch up as much as with my belt cp. i think it would be interesting to see what effect it has on a larger heli.

i would think that would hert 3d performance a little too. but again there is only one way to find out.

Justin
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08-24-2008 11:42 PM  12 years ago
QueeQueg

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West Texas

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Get a copy of Virtual Wind Tunnel and you can see and quantify what effects your idea will induce to an airframe.

I saw a guy use it to design an EDF VTOL RC aircraft with it. Lots simpler than guesswork and building solid prototypes.
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08-25-2008 03:58 AM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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The small sharky fins didn't seem to do as much as previous versions,
so I made them bigger.

They were too big,
I couldn't even pirouette.

I will have the video of that dismal failure up in by tomorrow.

I am going to try a size inbetween the two,
and see what happens.

And queequeg,
I couldn't find a virtual wind tunnel that was 3D and free.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-27-2008 07:04 PM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Ok,
it was the gyro preventing the pirouette,
not the fins,
I went back to the original shape though.

I just got a bunch of new electronics,
and I wanted to rule out all possible variables.

Got all the trons in my heli working solid,
and flying good without the stabilizers (yesterday),
so this morning I re-made the original fins (which had been trimmed several times).

Took it out,
and it is flying amazing again.

I know I don't have a comparative video yet,
but you can here it clear as day in this video,
I go from a hover and lean into forward flight,
with no altitude loss,
and no throttle increase.

Watch at YouTube

I've done some hand drawn sketches of possible wind tunnel scenarios
(I can't make my own wind tunnel, and I can't imagine how it would work because the dynamic stabilizer only works as the part of the sum total of many forces...if you had all of that going in a wind tunnel it seems that it would stir up the streams too much to be seen).
to explain whats going on here,
so I think later today,
or tomorrow that I may have a visual posted on that.

Things are going to be a little slower on here,
I just started school.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-27-2008 07:18 PM  12 years ago
AirWolfRC

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It looks and sounds like transitional lift is what you are seeing rather than any effect from your fins.

I give transitional lift a brief numerical analysis on http://www.AirWolfRC.com/NFB.html
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08-27-2008 07:31 PM  12 years ago
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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Indeed interesting and dont be discouraged...especially by the "pros".~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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08-27-2008 07:42 PM  12 years ago
RussD

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UK

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Yeah kinda Interesting!

One prob with 3-D flight is that to enable very fast cyclics in / around the hover, the model gets pitchy in fast forward / backward flight... not a prob for the current generation of 3-D Pilots who keep the model low and slow... but a few ole-timers like to let em rip in fast flight... ;-)

RussD.
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08-27-2008 07:43 PM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Can't say I understand all of the numbers there airwolf (had time only for a brief look,...back to class),
but
If I understand it correctly then transitional lift isn't the same as what is going on with mine.
What you're describing has to do with the rotors on a flybarless system,
and any tendency to nose up you thought you may have noticed,
was my piloting.

Once you get this thing moving,
it is very stable,
it takes input to change things.

Again,
I could be wrong,
I am not really all that great at math,
so maybe I don't fully understand what is going on.

I gotta get started on making these things,
so you can all "see" what I am talking about.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-27-2008 07:48 PM  12 years ago
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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By the looks and sound of it...Is this pretty much a free floating flybar? I know not exactly but more or less?~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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08-27-2008 09:11 PM  12 years ago
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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No flybar and transitional lift are independent.
I just happen to address both questions on the same page.

Transitional lift is an increase of lift by vertue of lateral speed over hover and is proportional to speed.
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08-27-2008 09:56 PM  12 years ago
toolman18

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Portland Tx

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I wonder what the advantage would be if you had servos hooked up to the fins. That way you could use them to help control movent such as rolls. etc. I was just thinking......On some ships they have stabilizer fins that will roll to keep the boat more stable. I wonder if you could do something like that. You may need a gyro to control it though. It could make a heli more stable. Dont know. Just throwing it out there.
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08-27-2008 11:39 PM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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That is actually one of the proposed set ups,
for real helis.

Motor controlled,
hooked up to pressure sensors so that they go with the flow,
unless the pilot instructs otherwise.

But for these scale models,
the vaning seems to work great.

Airwolf,
yeah,
I've emailed a couple people at the AMA,
and one described it as transitional lift.

So I get it, you are correct.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-28-2008 01:24 AM  12 years ago
jgunpilot

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Pollock, LA

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This is an interesting thread. I've studied rotary wing aerodynamics since 1976, and flown a bunch of different aircraft, both R/C and full scale, yet I don't think this device has benefits that will pay off in the long run. The complete novice would benefit from an FMA copilot like device, the expert merely needs a good quality tail gyro. The dynamic stabilizer seems to be neither fish nor fowl.
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08-28-2008 02:07 AM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Why does everyone assume I am just proposing this for RC?

If I invented something that got you 35% more gas mileage in your car you'd care.

I get it,
without actually flying it your self it appears to be a novelty on the level with tassels on your handlebars.

Where I really think this invention will count,
in the military.

Extending the range of combat choppers,
and possibly enabling the development of a rotary UAV.

Not just because it allows for stable flight at low head speeds,
but because it smooths things out, it would enable a less sophisticated AI pilot (IE cheaper).
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-28-2008 02:11 AM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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"It looks and sounds like transitional lift is what you are seeing rather than any effect from your fins."

If it were not from the fins then why is it not present without them?

I would've had a comparative video done today,
but I went out with a dead camera.

So maybe tomorrow,
I will have a video with,
and without fins,
all one take,
no cuts or changed settings.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-28-2008 01:12 PM  12 years ago
RESQMAN911

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Canton, GA

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I totally respect your conviction to your Idea, and maybe your 100% correct, But you have a wealth of knowledge on these forums and every time someone gives you even a little constructive criticism you get upset. Some of these people work on, design and fly full-scale helis and they are offering their opinion and expertise and you act as if they are attacking you. If you did not want peoples input than you should not have posted here, you should have taken your idea to market and made millions since it is obvious from your comments that this is a proven idea and is beyond question.
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08-28-2008 02:04 PM  12 years ago
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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By the looks and sound of it...Is this pretty much a free floating flybar? I know not exactly but more or less?
***
No flybar and transitional lift are independent.
Sorry for consfusion airwolf...my comment was for heliraptor10 on his design.
~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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08-28-2008 03:50 PM  12 years ago
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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No confusion, I was refering to an actual flybar as related to my AirWolfRC.com/NFB.html page.
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08-28-2008 04:33 PM  12 years ago
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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granted no confusion on your part related to what you are talking about.

the confusion was on my part for not being clear to whom my comment was directed at.

***

So...my question still stands for heliraptor10.
~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › The Dynamic Stabilizer : Now an abandoned patent
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