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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › The Dynamic Stabilizer : Now an abandoned patent
08-24-2008 12:33 AM  12 years ago
classic

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Someone has already beat you to it.

His name is.......

Batman!

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!
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08-24-2008 12:37 AM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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Careful now that photo is copywritten and the guys who think they own it
defend it viciously
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-24-2008 05:13 PM  12 years ago
AirWolfRC

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Not to worry, it's called fair use.

You can also try this, but the wings don't articulate.

Watch at YouTube

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08-24-2008 05:34 PM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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That is some funny stuff,
reminds me of MST3K.....God I miss that show.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-24-2008 05:40 PM  12 years ago
Stu.

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doesnt anyone else think this is a bit pointless?

extra drag, tendency to flutter etc

i can see the idea might have merit except on larger helis...slow the head down, the retreating balde stalls and boom, you are in a roll which you arent coming out of.

i could see this being useful as a "training aid" but then again a buddy box/simulateor has the same effect.

the head does become more efficient with more airflow over them..thats why tail gyros wag at high speed and dont in hover.

Stuart
www.waterfoothelis.com
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08-24-2008 05:46 PM  12 years ago
RotorRage

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Although not articulated i belive the apache and cobra helicopters have airfoiled stub wings that rockets and such are mounted on.A friend will bail you out of jail. A real friend sits with you in the cell saying"That was awe
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08-24-2008 05:50 PM  12 years ago
AirWolfRC

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the head does become more efficient with more airflow over them..thats why tail gyros wag at high speed and dont in hover.
The wag at high speed is because the dynamic gain is higher at higher speed.

The tail rotor becomes more efficient at higher forward speed just like the main rotor becomes more efficient at higher forward speed.
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08-24-2008 05:50 PM  12 years ago
ruddernate

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the main aspect of the dynamic stabilizer is the dynamic part. it's articulated. many choppers have winds but none are articulated. i think it's main market will be rc helis. however it's an interesting concept for full scale as well. the effects should only be amplified as the size increases. if it weren't for them articulating i don't think a patent would be possible. but they do. maybe even a great addition to a heli drag racer's arsenal.fly it like you stole it
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08-24-2008 05:53 PM  12 years ago
AirWolfRC

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The only gain I see from free-pivoting vanes is they can help stabilize the airflow around the fuselage giving some unspecified gain.
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08-24-2008 05:58 PM  12 years ago
ruddernate

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i agree. i also think the larger benefit is that it will do this in any orientation,whereas a fixed wind may be great in forward flight but cause issues with piro's and reverse. i'd just think it'd be fun to experiment with. looking forward to more testing.fly it like you stole it
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08-24-2008 05:58 PM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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"Although not articulated i belive the apache and cobra helicopters have airfoiled stub wings that rockets and such are mounted on."
Yes (many helicopters do, like the MI24 which airwolf pointed out, its wings are even mounted on at an angle giving it a bit of a fixed wing advantage in forward flight)
but if they are not articulated,
then they don't help at any angle of attack.

They only seek to guide back into a horizontal position.

And yes lower headspeeds are more unstable,
(I know this first hand because when I got this thing I turned the blade pitch way up so that I could get in the air at a lower headspeed and have longer flights.....then I tried to bring it back down)

But you only lower your headspeed after forward flight is established,
at which point the fins stabilize you.

I think many people are over thinking this,
And I would doubt myself,
if I wasn't actually flying it.

You can't see it in the video,
you can hear it though.

But you have to fly it,
to feel it,
to know what it does.

I already said I do not anticipate the pros needing or wanting this,
It will be a training aid,
and possibly have use for extending range.

I have made a quick release system for them,
and I will have a comparative video up soon.

I know that still won't prove anything,
so I am trying to find someone nearby with credibility that I can show them to.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-24-2008 06:23 PM  12 years ago
RotorRage

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Yes (many helicopters do, like the MI24 which airwolf pointed out, its wings are even mounted on at an angle giving it a bit of a fixed wing advantage in forward flight)
but if they are not articulated,
then they don't help at any angle of attack
How many angles of attack do you see full scale helis flying at?(other than the redbull chopper LOL)

That being said it looks like you have a great innovation for purpose built models. I wish i knew how a symetrical wing flying at zero degrees alpha could produce lift. As airwolf said it must have to do with stabilized airflow. Have you done any tests to see how this effects flight time? As in how many mah used with and without? It would be cool to see.
A friend will bail you out of jail. A real friend sits with you in the cell saying"That was awe
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08-24-2008 06:35 PM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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I am still on stock chargers,
so I can't do that.

I am going to buy two of the exact same high quality battery,
and do a test that way.

They don't really produce lift persay,
Lifting isn't the same thing as not falling.

You know how FFF produces a "disk effect" because not all of the air is pulled through the blades,
some deflects off pushing you down like a frisbee at the same angle,
well while that effect tries to push you down,
the stabilizers at their angle from forward flight (not quite 0 degrees,
they are weighted so that they always try to have a bit of positive pitch, even when inverted) ..anyhoo, the stabilizers counter act that,
preventing altitude loss,
like lift
but not the same.

Wait till I get a good video of a piro

This little 450 can piro as flat as one of the big boys.

Also some of the extra forward speed comes from the percentage of blade wash that is directed backwards by the fins.
While at the same time the fins prevents the loss of this airforce (that would normally go towards lift) from causing altitude loss.

I've always been somewhat scientific,
so I am going a bit crazy trying to figure out how to prove the concept, with the materials I have available.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-24-2008 06:43 PM  12 years ago
3dhiro

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heliraptor10,
I do not wish to bash you but I have to tell you some things the way they are and you probably won't like it. But perhaps it will save you money in the long run.

First of all you posts show that you have poor understanding of physics. You can only prevent altitude lost by generating lift. Lift is generated when the wings have an angle of attach. Your fins are freely rotating and acquire a neutral position. Even if you assume that lift is produced, in nature you can't get something from nothing and thus your forward speed is affected while lift is produced which then contradicts your other claim.

You don't have physics proof of the operation of your system.
You don't have simulations.
You don't have any reliable experimental data.

My advice to you is to speak to a person who understand physics before you commit more money and time into this idea.
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08-24-2008 07:05 PM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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Reliable experimentation data?

I can see it working.

No I don't have physics,
I barely passed algebra.

I wonder how the Wright brothers managed to get off the ground.

You are meaning to bash me,
you can't wrap your mind around my simple concept and it bugs you.

I know what lift is,
and how it is generated,
the blades angle of attack is also not the only way to generate it (though with symmetrical fins such as mine it is).

I don't say lift,
because in my opinion they are not creating lift (although since they always maintain some positive pitch I suppose you could say they are).

Do you see an order number on the screen?
Am I asking you for money?

I am not stupid,
just not fully educated,
I know I can not do anything more with this concept on my own,
which is why I filed what I could to protect my idea
while I put it out there

To get help

Which,
telling me I don't know what I am talking about

that doesn't help.

I can't put more money into this idea,
I will put all the time into it I want,
its fun!

It's not some headache causing complicated thing that needs bugs worked out,

WING+ WHEEL = Dynamic stabilizer

There are some fine tuning points,
but I am working on those.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-24-2008 07:10 PM  12 years ago
ruddernate

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sulphur,Ok.

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keep up the testing. hr. sometimes the proof is in the pudding. if you're flying it and it works for you, more power to ya. i believe you already stated you are working on more testing and data. if it helps you fly who cares what simulated data says. i've never relied totally on how something looks on paper. if you can pinpoint the benefits and amplify those while decreasing the negatives, it should be a fun experiment. many times in my work as a fabricator i get drawings that i'm supposed to put into real life that simply will not work. the math works and the engineer looks at you like you're ignorant. what i look at is cold hard steel. if it won't fit , it won't fit. my point i guess is there may be other reasons why this is working for you that are yet to be explored. i know you as the type to do your research, and research is what is needed. keep it up and have fun.fly it like you stole it
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08-24-2008 07:11 PM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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"Your fins are freely rotating and acquire a neutral position"

Yes,
except for the fact that they are weighted.

So there is resistance to being completely neutral within the air current,
resistance that keeps them at a positive angle of attack.

So I guess you are right and I am wrong, I will concede to that,
they do generate lift.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-24-2008 07:57 PM  12 years ago
RotorRage

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Lake Charles, La.

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Just for fun you should try some .50 size paddles for wings. Also try adding and subtracting weight to the trailing edge to see if your theory is correct. There is always a way to test things on a low budget. looking forward to seeing what you come up with.A friend will bail you out of jail. A real friend sits with you in the cell saying"That was awe
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08-24-2008 08:58 PM  12 years ago
heliraptor10

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I was thinking about the paddles,
I looked at a few sets at IRCHA.

I think I will probably come back to those.

I started with a fairly wide fin
like these

And I started trimming them back.

I got to a point where they were thin enough,
that I had great maneuverability (the wider they are the stronger the initial resistance to a maneuver),
but they would wobble up and down in flight.

That's why I am testing shark fin shapes right now,
because they are pretty narrow,
yet the extended inside edge and tip should help prevent the wobble.

I plan on testing different weights,
and different positions for the weights ie closer to the axis and further from the axis.
Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners
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08-24-2008 10:40 PM  12 years ago
RotorRage

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Lake Charles, La.

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Let me know when you want some outside testing done. I'll strap a set on a take em through some piroflips A friend will bail you out of jail. A real friend sits with you in the cell saying"That was awe
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › The Dynamic Stabilizer : Now an abandoned patent
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