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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-MSH Protos, Mini Protos › Tracking problem solution...
08-10-2008 10:31 PM  12 years ago
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pwkpete

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Pewaukee, WI, USA

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Tracking problem solution...
After chatting with Corrado today, I was able to temporarily fix the problem. He is working on a permanent solution.

Take the head off (only head, leave washout and swash on)
Put a thin film of CA on the main shaft around there the bolt goes through and just a little bit lower and also on the top of the main shaft. Let it completely dry.
Press the head on to the main shaft. If you put enough on, this should be a bit of effort.

Since trying this, I've put on 3 flights, blade tracking spot on the whole time.

All with the original grips.

For anyone needing parts, I will be at IRCHA with hopefully everything anyone will need for the Protos
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08-11-2008 01:58 AM  12 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Pete, I applaud your efforts in trying to find the solution but this is not it. I used some "green" reatiner here a few weeks back thinking of the same thing..., same as pinion retainer 690, same thing basically. Anyhow as you did with ca to tighten the grasp of the head block to main shaft. It did nothing, I suspect you have coincedence here. I say this as the washers in between the blade grips and head still char at the aluminum, the dampers still tear and the spindle still teeters with minimal effort, all of these actions have nothing to do with the main shaft and head block slop.

Perhaps this fixed "your heli" but this is not the fix for all of them, I gurantee this and I would hope Corrado does not think this is the magic bullet or there will be far more reports. A total and complete solution for this issue must be found, the witch hunting is getting crazy for a heli that apparently had hundreds of test flights prior to production?
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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08-11-2008 02:13 AM  12 years ago
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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I am not having the tracking issue and I have done the following modification. Weather or not this is the culprit, the problem does not exist with my Protos.

Remove the spindle shaft and six dampeners. Slide the spindle shaft in without the dampeners. Notice there the amount of room the spindle can move within the head. While this room for movement is meant to allow for the dampening effect, I still chose to fill in this gap with one layer of scotch tape on the center of the spindle shaft followed by one layer of shrink wrap tubing. (funny how one layer of scotch tape was the last bit I needed). This consumed a bout 75% of the gap. Without the dampeners installed, slide the spindle in the rotor head, then press in the dampeners. Assemble the head as normal.

My theory includes there is a little too much room for the spindle to move within the rotor head and dampeners, and through resonation it cannot correct itself while the power is on. Filling in this gap simply restricts the spindle from moving as much within the rotor head. Tighter dampeners should also have the same or greater effect.

What are other people's thoughts regarding my work and results? What is Corrado's thoughts as well?
_Sam B_
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08-11-2008 02:14 AM  12 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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After chatting with Corrado today, I was able to temporarily fix the problem. He is working on a permanent solution.
He said it was a temporary solution, not a permanent one.
Pete, did Corrado say for sure if the solution will be at IRCHA?
Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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08-11-2008 02:15 AM  12 years ago
pwkpete

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Pewaukee, WI, USA

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Shawn,

I will say that the fix you showed in your video worked on both of mine. (Tweaking the head in the middle of a flight) But I will add that I've never had the damaged head that you have now the excessively chewed up dampeners.

I'm also not sure green retainer will act as a filler as the CA in my test did... Corrado recommended that I try JB Weld, but I only had CA handy...

I have crashed one of mine 2x (essentially full kit both times - same head) and after the last crash I started having these problems. The other just happened progressively.

After doing this tweak, both of mine are fine. So perhaps there is more to yours than just that, especially if you head is damaged... Are you still trying to use that head with the ovalized hole?

I would still recommend that others with the problem try it...
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08-11-2008 02:17 AM  12 years ago
pwkpete

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Sorry Ron, he is working on the final solution and won't be available for IRCHA.

He has a couple options but hasn't decided on which to go with yet.

Rest assured, everyone will get it...
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08-11-2008 03:04 AM  12 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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sam2b, I actually had tried using heatshrink to make a sleeve for the spindle to take up this room on the spindle tunnel as well in the first week of issue trials, that as well did help, but did not solve the problem. I do however greatly agree there is far to much room there for the teetering to take place. And Pete as mentioned, yes your fix might work for some but again as stated did not solve my tracking issue nor 3 of my friends either. We have now replaced every head component, some parts 3 times for fear of not remembering even what was changed anymore, added shims, sleeved spindles, tried harder dampers, green loctited head hubs etc and still the tracking issue is there.

For giggles I will remove the headblock "if I even can" and try the ca wall barrier, at this point the heli is simply sitting so may as well try....
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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08-11-2008 03:06 AM  12 years ago
OICU812

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And no pete I am not trying nor flying the ovalized hole head, I am on head 3 to make sure nothing is damaged. There is now new head, spindle, dampers etc all installed, I will try the ca gamble and return....Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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08-11-2008 03:09 AM  12 years ago
pwkpete

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Gotcha, sent email to you as well via RCG.
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08-11-2008 03:29 AM  12 years ago
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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So the consensus is the root of the problem is within the rotor head?_Sam B_
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08-11-2008 02:51 PM  12 years ago
pwkpete

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That is correct.

Corrado has found that even though the head block feels completely solid, that in flight it wiggles a tiny amount due to all the force because there is a small gap inside.

CA acts as a filler. (I/we don't believe locktite will though)

Using the method I described, (or something similar), CA takes up the gap and prevents it from moving.

I am 2 for 2 with this fix... Would be good to get some more results out there....
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08-11-2008 03:11 PM  12 years ago
GScott

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Lewis Center, OH

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I thought the issue was the grips allowing too much room for the thrust bearings. Is that now not the case?
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08-11-2008 03:15 PM  12 years ago
pwkpete

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Pewaukee, WI, USA

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The new grips will extend the longevity of the thrust bearings and make them completely rigid now.

It is believed what I described is the underlying problem...
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08-11-2008 04:46 PM  12 years ago
jyzoom

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Singapore

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hmm....same on Trex 500
Sam2B,

Hmmm......I remember same thing on Trex 500.

Isn't this part describe what you did on protos?

http://www.align.com.tw/shop/produc...roducts_id=2124

Jonathan
Goblin 700, Furion 450, Synergy E6
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08-11-2008 07:07 PM  12 years ago
EricW

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Netherlands

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Now i finally understand what the fix is supposed to do...
But i couldn't understand the new thing about it on the other thread Pete..
I'll try it asap and see if it improves.

Thanks,
Eric
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08-11-2008 07:23 PM  12 years ago
pwkpete

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No prob Eric.

Please let us know the results.
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08-12-2008 01:55 AM  12 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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first off the sleeve was not Aligns fix for tracking, it was simply to improve the feel in 3D as their stock dampers are to soft, or rather were until later improvement. There was no tracking issue on the 500 rex. Anyhow continuing on I did try the dried ca gig with hope and unfourtenetly have same results of bad tracking, I sincerely was hoping it would do the trick. At any rate good to know there are peeps working on things......Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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08-12-2008 03:48 AM  12 years ago
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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hmm....same on Trex 500. Sam2B, Hmmm......I remember same thing on Trex 500. Isn't this part describe what you did on protos?
Actually, no. That sleeve does what OICU812 described, and serves as an inner support for the dampeners. My goal was simply to minimize the amount of wiggle room of the spindle shaft itself within the rotor head. So far so good on my end.
_Sam B_
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08-16-2008 06:53 AM  12 years ago
Shawn Behrens

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DEEP IN THE BOG

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Does anyone know if any other heads (swash up)like the trex500 or hdx500 etc that could be used on the protos?
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-MSH Protos, Mini Protos › Tracking problem solution...
08-18-2008 04:21 PM  12 years ago
0 •• Post 20 ••
pwkpete

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Pewaukee, WI, USA

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Just to keep this thread up to date:

Shawn sent me his heli (at IRCHA). Corrado applied the fix with JB Weld, as well as replaced the head. Problem solved, flew perfect! Heli is on the way back to Shawn.

The fix I described can be done with epoxy or JB weld as just mentioned. Just a light coat around the top of the main shaft and a dab on top, insert into the head. Insert and tighten head screw and let cure. If you crash, there is no issue getting the main shaft out, and most likely, you will not need to apply the fix again, as the glue should still be in the head....
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