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08-21-2008 07:48 AM  12 years ago
raptorheli2

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rip off britain and no changing it

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sid, as i said MANY times. go looking for info and you will find everything you need to know.

they say use spartan firmware, i guess it is a pure accident the coding in this gyro works with spartan firmware?....ummmmm. there is other things but i'm afraid i can't give more details than that at this time.

cheers

www.waterfoothelis.com
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08-21-2008 08:18 AM  12 years ago
twitch

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Las Vegas

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I heard it would accept spartan firmware, not that it came with it. Im just a consumer in the need for some gyros now and looking for non bias real answers on an alternative product of something that isn't readily available, not opinionated answers for a distributor or some one who has a personal connection to spartan that jumps the gun and slanders on anything that might sound similar to their product before knowing anything about it. If the G-lock gyro is a carbon copy with the same encrypted firmware as spartan then lets find out first before making your word have no credibility. That is what makes me think twice on what is actually said or advised now against similar products.
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08-21-2008 08:19 AM  12 years ago
raptorheli2

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rip off britain and no changing it

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i'm afraid i can't give more details than that at this time.
sigh, words fail me

cheers

www.waterfoothelis.com
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08-21-2008 08:21 AM  12 years ago
twitch

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Las Vegas

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SIGH

words fail me

cheers
exactly my point

and I see you edited your post
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08-21-2008 08:25 AM  12 years ago
raptorheli2

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rip off britain and no changing it

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sid, i merely took the spacing out. hardly editing now is it my friend but you seem to have a B in your bunnet about something.

anyways, i digress. please let us know how you fair as i can't say anymore than i have.

cheers

www.waterfoothelis.com
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08-21-2008 08:37 AM  12 years ago
twitch

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Las Vegas

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you changed it back after you saw I quoted you. Im not into playing your childish game, I expected more form you, im not sure how you are connected to spartan but now as a consumer am quite disapointed in your actions and what kind of people Spartan has representing them. I love spartan products and personaly think they are the best out there and would be my first option of purchase but you should be a little more mature representing a company then what you are displaying.
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08-21-2008 08:44 AM  12 years ago
raptorheli2

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rip off britain and no changing it

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sid, i'm sorry you feel this way but i have every right to edit my post. i perhaps should do it more before i post but alas, one of my failings.

i'm not wanting to get in a tit for tat debate as we evidently have ended up doing so, was not the intention.

cheers

www.waterfoothelis.com
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08-21-2008 09:05 AM  12 years ago
twitch

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Las Vegas

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editing your post because of sounding immature and then lie and say it was just the spaceing is still childish. You have to understand my point of view, a consumers frustration on researching for real answers on an alternative product of something that isnt readily available and having representatives of that company bashing other similar products without any knowledge, research, facts or even hearing about it before I posted it. That just naturally makes us the consumer think what is said by a representative is really true. Spartan has to good of a product to need these types of false actions.
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08-21-2008 09:52 AM  12 years ago
raptorheli2

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rip off britain and no changing it

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sid, as i said before, i'm not getting into a tit for tat.

good luck with whatever you go with.

cheers

www.waterfoothelis.com
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08-21-2008 10:44 AM  12 years ago
Autoeject

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Ashtabula, OH, USA

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Sid,

This is RunRyder, not a court of law. Spartan RC will handle this matter in thier time and the appropriate place. We've simply made a suggestion to you. Do with it what you will. Suggesting that we are biased is rediculous. If that were the case, I would hardly suggest that you purchase from any other legitimate manufacturers rather than just buying from Spartan. I also suggest that you stick with noncloned heli brands, as well. It was implied, if not stated.

That said, do what you will. When the cheapy ripoff (no matter what the product. A search on here will find dozens) fails you, you will know who's at fault.
Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
Spartan RC Distributor
Outrage Helicopters
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08-21-2008 11:06 AM  12 years ago
tchavei

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Portugal

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This topic has gone a litte off. There is no point for you guys to go all over because of a gyro

Anyway, here are my two cents:

1) Hacking a chip to obtain the machine code isn't an easy task. Its a VERY specialized and EXPENSIVE job.

2) Even if you have the compiled machine code in your hands, decompiling it doesn't give you an exact copy of the source assembly code so most companies that go that route don't bother decompiling it. They use the hacked image and copy it on new chips assuring that the chip is an exact workable copy of the original.

3) each DS760 is individually tested in a hot/cold enviroment and the outputting data is used to calibrate the sensor of that unit. This is the most time consuming and expensive task. I bet whatever you want that the PG-800 and G-lock 760 have an exact copy of ONE of the spartan units. Thats the only way that the DS760 firmware works with them. The drawback is that ALL of the copies are running on the same calibration data. This might be ok for maybe 30% of the sensor chips but what about the other 70%? I'll tell you, the chances of tail drift during flight are very high since the calibration data is off.

4) Align's gyro is facing the same problem. They wanted to mass produce a cheap gyro but didn't want to spend the money on a SS sensor (which makes sense... the current sensor is just too big) so they went the AD sensor route (just like the 760, Solid-G and CSM720) however they thought they could get away without going through the process of calibrating each and every gyro... what has been the result? People complaining about increased tail drift after a flight mostly due to temperature changes. If you don't calibrate an AD sensor, the performance is going to be poor no matter what.

5) About the DS760 availability... if you're thinking that you can just walk into a LHS and buy a hand full of them, think again. Its like buying a Ferrari (the german ferrari waiting list for one is 13 months, the portuguese waiting list is 7 months btw). I had to go through hell to get my hands on a Ds760. Nowadays its easier to get one but they still sell before the batch even arrives. I pre-ordered mine 3 weeks before the ETA at the US distributor and, if I recall correctly, Mark only had 3 unspoken units left at that time. If you really want one, you can get them right now at several european stores (I just checked) but like I said, don't expect them to be for sale at the local supermarket.

6) About the new g-lock. My bet is that SJGD is trying to dump their stock as fast as possible. Spartan has already taken legal actions and my bet is that they want to dump everything fast to cut their losses. Like mentioned on #1, hacking a chip is extremely expensive and isn't easy to do. You need special tools and the only way to pay for this is to sell XXXX units or you're in trouble.

7) If you want to go another route, thats your choice but don't bash something just because its "hard to get". I don't see anyone NOT buying a ferrari because he has to be on a waiting list.

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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08-21-2008 12:59 PM  12 years ago
3dhiro

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Scotland

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I lived in China for almost 2 years and while I was there they had a huge crack down against pirating and new laws were established and enforced. The thing is SJGD is publicly advertising and selling these. If I was spartan I would follow the process to stop them.
Wow, 2 years in China! I guess that makes you China copyright expert. Perhaps you could offer your services to Spartan. Joking aside, do you really think that any company will publicly disclose their legal matters? The fact is that neither PG-800 or G-LOCK are available for sale in any western country and judging from what I read on another forum Spartan isn't sitting idle on such matters. It is a pity that in the end the little model shops and uses will take the hit being unable to sell or have repaired these gyros; entirely due to the dishonesty of the manufacturer. And yes, I too think the G-LOCK is a rebadged PG-800 and a desperate attempt of SJGD to dump their stock. The two gyros are identical in every detail even down to the packaging.
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08-21-2008 05:20 PM  12 years ago
twitch

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Las Vegas

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3dhiro, why bash the consumer? What was stated is that there has been a rather large turning point in this type of matter in China which might help things move along esaer. The other point is that unfortunately I was there to witness it first hand and was actually a huge ordeal. You act like I am against something here which Im not. Im just looking for real facts and would expect people in the business to be more professional then this. Tell me what you find wrong with that or if its to much to expect. As I said before, I own Spartan products, I think they have the best product on the market at this present time and I plug spartan every chance I get because that is my gyro of choice. But you are acting all sensitive over what??? And thank you tchavei for your helpful insight.

EDIT-
I also suggest that you stick with non cloned heli brands, as well.
something I want to make clear, I agree 100% that cloning is totally wrong and I wont support it in any way but my question and point on this matter is whether or not they are "actually" clones and look for answers from a "neutrally source" before they are automaticly stamped CLONE by another product in the biz. I feel that Spartan is more professional and have to be since having the best products to date no matter how a small few may act. I agree to buy the product were credit is due and not someone who copied the idea but I dont think its fair to the Consumer to have a representative of a simular product on here saying if it looks like it, and smells like it, Then it is it before they actually know.
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08-21-2008 05:38 PM  12 years ago
legoman67

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Nanoose Bay B.C, Canada

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He is probably trying to figure out why some of them have servo issues in ref to my other post..

http://runryder.com/t449782p1/?highlight=servo+not

out of the few he had in his bag at ircha the next one we pulled out didnt work either...
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08-22-2008 01:08 AM  12 years ago
Angelos

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nr Oxford, OX11, UK

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Matt, the gyro I got back from you had a broken wire right by the servo connector. I know it has passed production test as the electronic serial number is assigned to a gyro only when all tests are passed. I therefore can only account it to the wire being pulled either as the gyro was removed from our test equipment or during installation to the heli. On my return from IRCHA I reminded my production assistants not to remove the plugs by pulling on the wire. The second gyro we tried at the back of your car and appeared not to work was actually fine when I tried it a few minutes later. I think we may have plugged it wrong or configure it wrong in the hurry.

There are no problems with our gyros (productions or otherwise) and we are delivering 100s of them every week. Most of our customers have more than one Spartan gyro and many continue to buy more to upgrade their entire fleet. With the current high demand stock does not usually make it to the shop websites as it is already allocated to pre-orders. This makes it appear as the product is not available for months. Ask a couple shops when they expect them and you will usually find stock will be available within the next weeks.

-Angelos
Spartan RC R&D
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08-22-2008 01:24 AM  12 years ago
legoman67

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Nanoose Bay B.C, Canada

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ok, thanks Angelos!

Top notch customer service

still working flawlessly

BTW lmk when you get those governors out, i want one!!
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08-22-2008 04:09 AM  12 years ago
twitch

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Las Vegas

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Thank you Angelos for the update. I will give it a try
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08-22-2008 05:48 AM  12 years ago
702nitro

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Las Vegas, NV

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Angelos(The Man) is here!!! So any time frame when the ds650 will be released? Just so us Spartanatics can sleep.
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