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HomeAircraftHelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Spectra-G questions please be patient..
03-09-2008 09:06 PM  10 years agoPost 1
pgkevet

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Wales

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Hello everyone.Please have some patience with a newcomer with all those newbie sorts of questions..
I've been flying only a few months, late 50's so my learning curve is slow.. it's taking time to get those reflexes automated- but I'm hooked.
Locally we have C restrictions to days and times.. so i started out electric and love it but field charging packs for my 600E is a non-starter and some days it's too windy to fly the 450.
I fancy a gasser for the IC days.. the idea of rocking up with a bg heli, tx and just a can of 2-stroke and fly all day - it has charm..

So I've been reading the build manuals:

Question1: The manual tools list includes a dial guage - unless I've missed it then nowhere does the manual use it. Seating the clutch is recommended with 2 feeler guages.

Question2: The same applies to C-clip pliers. If Ive missed that too then apologies from an old fart.

Question3: The build manual seems straightforward. Which areas are real issues? The Spark Lead shielding looks fiddly.. why can't one just wrap some shielding around it?

Question4: So folk have tried to put me off proffering horror stories of vibration, gyro issues and so forth - should I listen? Is there no way of damping out vibrations?

Question5: Tuning sounds scarey. My strimmer never got touched from the shop and still works.. How bad can it be?

Quesion6: Is this a mistake?

I've got loads more stuff to ask... but bit at a time.. Your time appeciated folks..

pgk

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03-09-2008 10:41 PM  10 years agoPost 2
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Page 10 of the online manual says you need the "C" clip pliers. They are used to install the c-clips onto the head axle.

Take a look at the online Stratus manual. It has pictures that can help, A lot of the assy is similar.

http://www.miniatureaircraftusa.com...collections.asp

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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03-09-2008 11:25 PM  10 years agoPost 3
nicco

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Sweden

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Question 1. It is used to dial in the fan on the motor.

Question 3: Just wrap some shielding and ground it to the motor.

Question 4. There are motor vibrations than nitro on gassers. There are motor modding companies that adjust the motor (balance, lightning the piston etc), to make the vibes less. If you not have a TRM or Hanson motor, I suggest you send it away. Is it an PUH 260 or PUH231?

What gyro do you plan to use? I also suggest to get some Zeal Green Gel (at nearest kyosho store) and mount the gyro sensor on that. Works greate.

Question 5. Tuning is not difficult, just different. You need to load down the motor to tune it right. You can not just turn in the needle untill it stops 4-stroking, as you can on a nitro. You also need to have proper disc loading. If you get vibration, turn OUT the needles. You will get hang of it.

Question 6. I have not had any MA Gasser, but I love my ION-X! I don't think there is a misstake. Take a look in the gasser section, there is a lot of help there!

Good luck!

/N

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03-10-2008 12:04 AM  10 years agoPost 4
pgkevet

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Wales

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Wow, fast replies guys.. thanks so far..

This is at the concept. sorting out what kit to get stage - but committed in the wallet to do so...just trying to avoid suprises.

Since I've never tuned any engine since I owned an Austin A30 in 1968 - nitro experience isn't an issue.. and that car ran 30 miles to the egg in the radiator.

Beleive it or not I've read the on-line manual twice now.. but a goldfish may have a better retention .. and withuot the bits in front.. well ya sort of think some parts are going to be like other heli-builds and scan them - I'll read it again <sigh> ..

pgk

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03-10-2008 02:55 AM  10 years agoPost 5
Toadster25

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Iowa

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I have a spectra and had an X-cell 30 and a fury so I have had some expierence with the MA helis. I like my Spectra a lot but it was a pain at first. Partly my fault since I crashed 2 times that were totally my fault and not caused by the heli.

I've never used a dial indicator on my MA heli's and I don't think it caused me any problems but I know that it probably could. Maybe I was just lucky?

The hardest part about the shield is pulling the spark plug boot off and getting it back on but it can be done. I've done it twice.
Some people don't even use and don't seem to have any problems with RF interference, so you actually could probably skip putting it on. The reason some people don't use it is because if you not careful the spark can jump out of the plug boot to the shielded wire insted of going to the plug and that is bad if it hapens in the air. But I have it on mine and havn't had any problems but I used RTV to seal the boot around the wire.

The vibrations, I feel did cause me problems at first. Part of the problem was I started using a G26 that wasn't ballaced very well and it just vibrated like crazy but I tried to get it to work for a few gallons. Then I bought a new stock G231 and it started out vibrating too but once you get past the break-in these engines get smoother. It just makes it hard because everything is new and your trying to test fly for the first time, get the engine carb adjusted(not too hard), watch for bolts comming loose, or breaking, you know, get all the bugs worked out. With an engine that is new and vibrating it was frustrating at first. I actually had some bolts just break from vibrations. Mostly the landing gear bolts. I put bigger ones in but I doubt that they would break now that my engine is running smooth.

The engine really isn't too hard to tune. I will admit that I had a lot of problems at first with this too though. I started out with a tuned pipe-that was a mistake when trying to tune an engine for the first time. Then I tried a century V2 muffler and it work okay at first but then I couldn't get my engine to run at the rpm I wanted. I am not sure why but I did not like the V2 muffler but I know there are guys that use the V3 and like it so don't just go off of my opinoin on this. They also have trouble keeping the muffler tight, and I had this problem too. After just about every other flight I would have to tighten the muffler. Then I started using the stock muffler that comes with the engine and all my engine tuning problems were gone. The engine ran great and the muffler doesn't come loose, ever. I love it. The only problem with the stock muffler is that I guess it doesn't give the engine as much power and it probably is a little louder. I would recomend that if you do get a Spectra G start with the stock muffler and then after you get it broken in the vibrations wont be as bad and hopefully whatever you use wont come loose and you'll have the carb tuned.
Now that I have had my Spectra G running good for over a year I love to fly it. I never touch the carb, just choke it to start and once its running just fly.

I will admit I didn't like my Spectra G at first but after I got all the bugs worked out and my two crashes out of the way I like it a lot. I have had a few servos go bad that I would blame on the vibrations. luckily they havn't caused my any crashes.

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03-10-2008 11:07 AM  10 years agoPost 6
pgkevet

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Wales

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Not the most cheerful msg but then I'd rather have opinion of users than some of the garbled 'net myth one hears..

Is there no way of running in the engine on a bench first?

I've scanned the manual yet again and finally found reference to the c clip.. but still can't find the manual actually stating where and when to use the dial guage ..or indeed how - remember I'm stupid and gonna need hand-holding. I can crash smooth running heli's quite easily as it is.

servo failure doesn't sound much fun.. my reading suggesting metal gears ar a no-no. I had a small heli that damaged servos regularly.. but at least they tended to flicker and twitch as opposed to a 'total' failure and one could do something about them.. is this similar?
More questions:

Question: MA's site shows a spectra with dual tanks. A thread i found suggested that single stock tank runs about 8-12 mins but more folk seemed to use a single larger tank and dual tank needed more canopy trimming?
To my logic (flawed?) dual tanks must equate balance better if arranged to empty simultaneously - is this a difficut plumbing problem or does one just T everything to two tanks?

Question: Is pack life as poor as some reports suggest - 4 flights? the 2100 2S pack on my 600 goes for 12-15 8 min flights with plenty left. Is the additional cost of a generator actually worth it or just more bling?

Question: If there's gonna be bits falling off/breaking from vibration then what basic spares should I start out with (and yes, I've got enough for my other helis to build new ones but this is going to be a different level of investment)

pgk

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03-10-2008 04:32 PM  10 years agoPost 7
Hoppy

rrApprentice

Melbourne, Australia

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Hey pgk
I just run the supplied tank at the front under the canopy.
Get 10 min flights just set the timer on my radio as you carnt see how much fuel you have left.
I seem to put back around 200mA to 250mA per flight depends on what electronics you have installed I suppose.
I dont really carry spares for the G. We have a good distributor here in aus so you can get the stuff in a couple of days anyway.
One of the reasons you buy MA in the first place is the quality and durability of the machines you dont seem to have to feed them new parts like some to keep them in the air.
As toadster said you have to learn alot at the start and it takes a while to get your head around it but keep going as the enjoyment will come.
I have had alot of help from people in the gasser section of this forum as well.

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03-10-2008 04:53 PM  10 years agoPost 8
pgkevet

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Wales

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I get 8-10 mins on my 600E and use the tx timer set for 8mins.. but old slow learners like me concentrate too hard and don't hear the timer.. and when it's going well (clever flying eludes me at the moment) then 10mins isn't always 'enough'.
I put it in the categories of 'lazy flying times', 'practising something new flying' and 'pushing one's limits flying' - sometimes lazy flying is relaxed fun.. and more time would be cool.

So either spare tank capacity or a plug in second tank just makes sense to me..

<<I seem to put back around 200mA to 250mA per flight depends on what electronics you have installed I suppose>>

Assuming you're on a 6-7v pack then that sounds better than some quotes here (good!). A second pack in the pocket is no biggie. I doubt this bird would notice a biggish 2S lipo anyway to guarantee a days flying...

pgk

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03-10-2008 05:35 PM  10 years agoPost 9
xcellgasman101

rrElite Veteran

WOODWARD, OKLA....

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I think most guys are replaceing the stock tank with a Du-bro 16oz. tank, goes where the stock tank goes, just mount it upside down,,, you will get more like 20 to 30 minutes of flying,,
There is noway to run the engine without it being it the heli, as it needs to have a load on it, or you will damage the engine,,
I use a JR ultra 2800mah 4.8v battery, and can fly several tanks out before I have to recharge, and I get about 40minutes a flight, You will want a break after flying for 20 to 30 minutes, so just get a field charger, and recharge while taking a break,, Raja, does sell a genorator, and everyone that uses it, likes it,,
Hang in there,, your going to love flying a gas heli.. There is no subtitute...... XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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03-10-2008 06:36 PM  10 years agoPost 10
pgkevet

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Wales

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<<I think most guys are replaceing the stock tank with a Du-bro 16oz. tank, goes where the stock tank goes, just mount it upside down,,, you will get more like 20 to 30 minutes of flying,, >>

No probs with CofG?

<<and I get about 40minutes a flight,>>

You drink quarts??

<<I use a JR ultra 2800mah 4.8v battery, and can fly several tanks out before I have to recharge,>>

I love the positives! - Keep those coming too.

<You will want a break after flying for 20 to 30 minutes>>

- These days I need a pee

<<Raja, does sell a genorator, and everyone that uses it, likes it,,:>>

Been reading lots about that.. but nice to leave non-essentials and bling out of things until later..

<<Hang in there,, your going to love flying a gas heli.. There is no subtitute...... >>

Ace.. love the positives.. but do give the realsims too.. and help me avoid them..

I hope you guys are gonna be patient with an old fart? (especially an old fart who's just realised that you need extended flight times for work reasons - saw the web link - ) - Onboard capture or radio download?

pgk

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03-10-2008 06:38 PM  10 years agoPost 11
pgkevet

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Wales

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<<There is noway to run the engine without it being it the heli, as it needs to have a load on it, or you will damage the engine>>

I can understand that .... was thinking in terms of some sort of torque clutch or air vanes for load on the bench?

pgk

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03-10-2008 08:52 PM  10 years agoPost 12
UK Helinut

rrApprentice

Gloucestershire

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The Zenoah can be fitted with a propdriver from the 260PU aero version if you really want to run it on the bench first.

Have a word with Dave from Motors and Rotors, he is a Zenoah main dealer as well as the UK Min Air importer.

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03-10-2008 09:37 PM  10 years agoPost 13
pgkevet

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Wales

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<<The Zenoah can be fitted with a propdriver from the 260PU aero version if you really want to run it on the bench first.>>

Ahh.. so can be done.. and worth knowing if troubles in the heli.. thanks.

(also implies all the folk winge-ing about running in either like to winge or it ain't such a big deal - otherwise everyone would bench run-in??)

pgk

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03-10-2008 11:05 PM  10 years agoPost 14
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Locally we have C restrictions to days and times..
Whats that ???

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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03-10-2008 11:59 PM  10 years agoPost 15
pgkevet

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Wales

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Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Locally we have C restrictions to days and times..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whats that ???
Apologies.. my dubious typing and editing skills... 'IC restrictions' - Officially local public flying area bylaws limit when engine powered flying is allowed - however by mutual agreement this doesn't apply to 'motors' - so electric 9am to sunset all year.

It's a hangover from some prehistoric deal cooked up to pacify folk living in the surrounding area against the noise of engines. All a bit of a joke since the local hooligans ride their dirt bikes all over the area 24/7

pgk

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03-11-2008 03:48 AM  10 years agoPost 16
Toadster25

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Iowa

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I use the dubro tank upside down and it works good. At first I used the stock tank and it seemed so small and when I was running the G26 it takes even more gas, but after you get the engine broke in and carb leaned out then the stock tank would actually work okay. The main reason I like the bigger one is because I can get 15 min flights with no problem and since you can't see the fuel tank up front while flying that makes me feel a lot better and not have to worry about running out.

My servo problems have been with the throttle servo. I have been using a cheap standard Futaba NO ball bearing servo on the throttle for a while now without any problems. The cheaper the servo the better I think when it comes to the throttle servo and I also think I would use a non digital. I had a Futaba 9256 servo that came with my 611 gyro fail. I think I may have had it grounded to the frame and that servo also went through 2 new engines one being the g26 that vibrated like crazy. When it failed the tail kicked out about 90 deg. and then came back. After that I landed as fast as I could and shut it off. I checked the servo and once on the ground it wouldn't work at all. I use JR8311 on the CCPM and one of those servos would stop moving while I would be working on the heli or making adjuments. I still flew with it like that for a while because I figured if it did stop working the vibrations would get it going again. I did replace it though just last month, getting ready to fly come spring.

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03-11-2008 03:59 AM  10 years agoPost 17
pgkevet

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Wales

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Does having the du-bro tank upside down mean stopper edge lower or higher?

Have folk opened up these dud servos and discovered whether it's broken cogs, damaged shafts or motor failures? And do you bother replacing servo cogs on gassers or just assume the rest is going south too?

Bits of kit are now on order so looks like I'm committed

pgk

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03-11-2008 04:13 AM  10 years agoPost 18
Toadster25

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Iowa

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All I can figure is either the brushes on the motor take so much vibrtion that they wear out or the resistor pot? goes bad? I'm not sure what you mean by cogs? Basically the servos I had would stop moving not stripped gears. I've had to replace gears after a crash. Maybe that is partly why my servos failed later on? I don't know for sure but I figure the vibration has a lot to do with it.

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03-11-2008 08:22 AM  10 years agoPost 19
pgkevet

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Wales

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my understanding is: cog (slang form) = cogwheel = toothed wheel. One or more toothed wheels = gear system.

so do brushless servos last longer?Do folk use them? If so that would imply it's the brushes wearing poorly under vibration opposed to other electronic components..

pgk

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03-12-2008 12:17 PM  10 years agoPost 20
pgkevet

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Wales

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New Question:
Engine forwards or backwards.. what's the real diference?

pgk

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