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HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignOther › Pitch control jumping.
03-09-2008 06:56 PM  10 years agoPost 1
rcmadness

rrApprentice

Midland, Texas - USA

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Equipment
600n Sport
Fut 9252's on cyclic
Fut 9202 On throttly
Ar7000 reciever
Align 2 in 1 Regulator/ Align LIPO bat
DX6i TX

Now the problem.
1. No matter whether the engine is running or not when I move my cyclic around the pitch control jumps every once in a while.

2. I have checked the wiring and I cannot find any issues.

3. I flew it yesterday to break the engine in with no issues that I noticed and I took it out this morning and as I spooled up I noticed the jump in the pitch controls.

4. I does not seem to do it when I change the pitch it only does it when I move the cyclic back to center.

5. It does not feel like a glitch.

6. Nothing is binding on the head. It was a little stiff but I worked it out and it still does it.

7. I have noticed that once the lipo runs down a little it seems to not do it as much. Actually I just went out and checked it again in the middle of writing this and after the battery ran down a little more it is barely doing it at all?????

Any thoughts.

Trex-250-450se-450pro-500esp-600nitro-Predator Gasser

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03-09-2008 07:41 PM  10 years agoPost 2
ThunderRobo

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Toronto, Canada

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static build up on the tail causing glitches?
binding on collective?
any pitch mixing enabled?

Derek
Da' kid with the toyz!
"Time for some Muzak!"

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03-09-2008 07:53 PM  10 years agoPost 3
SP4772

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Mirabel, Québec, Canada

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Try to do your binding again with your tx and rx. I had the same thing with my DX7 at the begining and could not figure out the problem until i did that.

WWJD??

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03-09-2008 08:17 PM  10 years agoPost 4
rcmadness

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Midland, Texas - USA

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Thanks for the suggestions.

static build up on the tail causing glitches?
Would this be an issue on a Spectrum system????

Binding on collective?
I took all the ball links loose and checked the top end. It was stiff but no binding. I did oil the cyclic ball and work everthing until is loosened up some.

any pitch mixing enabled?
None that I am aware of but I will check again. Thanks

I will also rebind the radio again. I had a little trouble binding it in the first place the night I installed the radio.
Thanks again for all your help and ideas I will post again after I have tried everything.

Trex-250-450se-450pro-500esp-600nitro-Predator Gasser

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03-09-2008 10:03 PM  10 years agoPost 5
Simmer

rrElite Veteran

Massachusetts

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static build up on the tail causing glitches?
Would this be an issue on a Spectrum system????

if it happens on the ground its not static.

Binding on collective?
I took all the ball links loose and checked the top end. It was stiff but no binding. I did oil the cyclic ball and work everthing until is loosened up some.

no this is not it unless you have a bad servo

any pitch mixing enabled?
None that I am aware of but I will check again. Thanks

Only if its consistant and happens all the time the same way in the same place could it be this.

I will also rebind the radio again. I had a little trouble binding it in the first place the night I installed the radio.
Thanks again for all your help and ideas I will post again after I have tried everything.

if its intermittant and always on the same servo- swap out that servo with one other of the cyclic servos to isolate THAT servo.

Hey you have an easy one if it fails on the ground engine not running (as I understand it)

If its not a bad servo, its interference, check and move the antenna to see if you can make it fail. Tap the reciever with the tip (or better back of the screwdriver plastic is better) and tap it in differnet areas to see if you can MAKE it fail just by tapping around the reciever and the external antenna board (DSM@ I think with the 6Xi)

One last thing. You seem to mention it does not happen when the battery has worn down a little bit. This points the the regulator, or receiver having an issue with too much voltage

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03-10-2008 12:10 AM  10 years agoPost 6
TerranAce007

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Austin, TX

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I had similar twitching on two different helis, which I narrowed down to be my Spektrum DM9 module. I had one of the original versions, so I sent it in and they upgraded the software. Did have any problems today, and I did a lot of flying.

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03-10-2008 01:05 AM  10 years agoPost 7
lfalsetto

rrKey Veteran

COLORADO

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First if you can change receivers and see if it solves the problem. If not try grounding the motor to the black wire of you BSC.

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03-10-2008 02:33 AM  10 years agoPost 8
Ford Rollo

rrApprentice

Surprise, AZ

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Glitching
I had a similar problem. It turned out to be the servo wires from the pitch and aileron servos too close to the start shaft. EMI must have come from the start shaft when it was running at flying speed.

Another thing to check. I had to get the servo wires as far from the start shaft as possible. Problem solved.

Good luck.

Ford

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03-10-2008 03:31 AM  10 years agoPost 9
rcmadness

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Midland, Texas - USA

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May have narrowed it down.
Well I have worked on all the issues that have been brought up.

1. Static Non issue does it on the bench with out the engine running.
2. Rebound the reciever twice No luck
3. Motor is grounded to the BSC been the case the whole time.
4. No pitch mix. double checked.
5.The jump is on all three cyclic servos sometime all three and sometime just one and its random
6. Pecked on the reciever with everthing but a hammer. No jumping.
7. Regulator voltage is 5.8 to 5.7 no matter how you load it up. I have the 5.1 inline regulator on the tail servo.
8. Starter shaft not an issue. Does it with the engine not running.
9. Cyclic not binding. I double checked it.
Hope I did not miss anyones comments or issues to check.
I do not have a back up reciever to try.

Now for the next chapter of this little saga.
When I take the dual rate out of the cyclic servos it appears to go away. I have a dual rate switch set up and when I flipped it to 100% and 10% expo it seems to have stopped the issue. I flipped it back to 80% and 15 expo and it started it again.

Trex-250-450se-450pro-500esp-600nitro-Predator Gasser

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03-10-2008 03:48 AM  10 years agoPost 10
lfalsetto

rrKey Veteran

COLORADO

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Could it be your transmitter swamping? Never heard of it with 2.4

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03-10-2008 04:01 AM  10 years agoPost 11
rcmadness

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Midland, Texas - USA

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Could it be your transmitter swamping?

You lost me on this one. Not sure what swamping is.

Also is it normal for the servos to hum (humming is a bad discription) there is a small amount of noise that comes from them when they are just setting there with the power on. I guess what I am asking do "digital servos" make a noise or should they be totally silent when they are standing still. I can move the sticks around and get them to stop when I let go sometimes.

Trex-250-450se-450pro-500esp-600nitro-Predator Gasser

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03-10-2008 04:29 AM  10 years agoPost 12
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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humm or more acurately buzzing is normal and yes I too can move the stick and make it stop silent but it is a normal thing for digital servos to make ticking sounds.

Swamping refers to the transmistter signal being too close or strong overpowering the receiver. I have seen this on my 2.4 back the transmitter away several feet (like 4 or 5 that should eliminate that as a source of the issue. If it still happens its not swamping a good 6 foot to be sure. Sometimes if you right on top of the recieiver like 2 to 3 foot you can swamp it.

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03-10-2008 04:32 AM  10 years agoPost 13
Simmer

rrElite Veteran

Massachusetts

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When I take the dual rate out of the cyclic servos it appears to go away. I have a dual rate switch set up and when I flipped it to 100% and 10% expo it seems to have stopped the issue. I flipped it back to 80% and 15 expo and it started it again.
Hmm well if this change can make it go away on the bench you have found the culprit. Dual rates effects it.

Go into the swash menu and see if the expo in this menu is activated.

It should be on for best results. Recheck your total collective travel if you change this setting as it will take out or put in about 2 degrees of pitch on each end (total or 4) and dial back in what you want for total pitch with the collective setting.

Here read this step 7. from this web site http://www.helihobby.com/html/helic...ccpm_setup.html

in bold VERY inportant!
7.Once the swashplate is moving in all the right directions in respect to the control stick, it is time to set the travels and prepare for flight!! Please note that most radios have a default expo amount for the swash mixes in CCPM. These expo settings help counteract interaction and it is generally recommended that expo is used for a smooth swashplate. Use the values found in the swash mix menu (the same ones used earlier to change the pitch, aileron, or elevator function direction) to increase or decrease the travel for each movement (check for binding as well). If more pitch is needed simply increase the Pitch value to add more travel. Do not change the "+/-" found in front of the value, only the number itself. For example, if more pitch is needed and the Pitch value in the Swash Mix menu is initially -60, changing the number to -70 would
add more travel.

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03-10-2008 05:47 AM  10 years agoPost 14
rcmadness

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Midland, Texas - USA

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Narrowed it all the way down to one issue.
Simmer,
It appears that the TX and the RX have an issue with just the expo, I followed the instructions and found out when I raised the pitch value from 60 to 80 it got much worse. If I INH the expo at the D/R screen the problem went away and I could add back in the dual rate without any issues.

I will have to do some checking tomorrow to see if there is an issue using the DX6i with the AR7000 rx. I tried to make it do the same thing on 2 different AR6001e's and there were no issues.

If anybody else discovers a compatibility issue I would appreciate a heads up and I will do the same.

Thanks

Trex-250-450se-450pro-500esp-600nitro-Predator Gasser

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03-10-2008 06:16 AM  10 years agoPost 15
rcmarty

rrVeteran

Penticton , B.C. CANADA

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From what i've read the dx6 won't work properly with any rx but what the dx6 comes with. I beleive it's the 6000 series or a 6100e.

Also the dx6 and repective rx are 'park flyer' range specd.

To use the ar7000 properly (gov later ? ) your going to need the dx7 tx

Also reguarding the swamping .. if the tx is too close to the rx when booting up (powering up) it will cause the rx not to respond right. For me it involved the throttle being a little bit up and no other repsonces at all. After 2 hotstarts i figured it out. Now i power up with the tx over 4' away and stirr the cyclic a sec to verify the servo's are on and i'm linked up.

Dx7 is all you'll need for a long time.

Martin

What goes up will come down.... one way or another !

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03-10-2008 12:14 PM  10 years agoPost 16
mickeybling

rrNovice

dudley wmid england UK

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hi try disconecting your 2in1 reg i had a simula foult on my trex i found to my cost it could not handle my servo set up

mickeybling

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03-10-2008 01:56 PM  10 years agoPost 17
WJackson

rrElite Veteran

Smyrna, Delaware

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DX6i, learn something everyday. Havent ran across any in person.

RIP Roman
Bill Jackson
AlignUSA

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03-10-2008 03:24 PM  10 years agoPost 18
Simmer

rrElite Veteran

Massachusetts

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W.Jackson absolutly!
But he has a 6i which is DSM2. Not a park flier transmitter.
Dont know about the reciever.

RCMadness, wonder why your even setting up dual rates?
I don't see a use for that myself. Maybe I am missing the point of that. For a plane sure use that a lot, heli, I would rather just manage the stick and have the same amount of control. Dont want to have it in the wrong mode and mess up, not have the control range.

Maybe if your just hovering your looking at taming it down? If so then use Expo not dual rates.

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03-10-2008 06:23 PM  10 years agoPost 19
rcmadness

rrApprentice

Midland, Texas - USA

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I have taken the dual rates out but on the DX6i the expo is on the same menu and even with the dual rates at 100% and 10% expo it still does it. I have gained some insite and will try a couple more things this evening.
1. Program a new model in the TX and see if that makes a difference.
2. Reverse the servo on the Cyclic that I have currently set at -60. This will change the setting to a +60.
3. Switch the aliron and pitch channels on the rx.
4. By pass the 2 in 1 regulator with standard 4.8 nicad.

By the way I called Horizon and they were absolutly no help at all. Basically since I was running Futaba servos they could not help me since they had not tested their system with them. They did not even suggest anything for assistance.

Oh well I will keep you guys updated as I continue to run diagnostics.

Again thanks for the help.

Trex-250-450se-450pro-500esp-600nitro-Predator Gasser

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03-10-2008 06:51 PM  10 years agoPost 20
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Tacoma, WA

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I noticed the jump in the pitch controls.
When you say pitch controls, do you mean the one servo that controls the collective? Or does this heli have a CCPM setup with three servos all controlling the collective?

If it is CCPM with three servo for collective, is the swash jumping up or down and staying level? If yes that tells me the receiver or transmitter may be defective, and sending/receiving garbage data intermittently.

If it is a single servo controlling the collective, I'd target the servo, or the servo's wire, or the servo's wire plug. If you have a spare servo, plug it in the respective channel and test it on the work bench to see if you still experience the jumping.

It is very possible for both receivers and servo wire plugs to become faulty over time because of the engine's vibration throughout the frame. Many don't realize how violent the micro vibrations can really be, and the damage it can do.

_Sam B_

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