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HomeAircraftHelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Insurance - my thoughts.
03-07-2008 04:10 PM  10 years agoPost 1
aambrose

rrElite Veteran

Pana, IL

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Since two people have already opened threads (then closed them) and alluded to the fact that they are upset because H&U is no longer offering equipment coverage (while airborne), I wanted to at least voice my opinion because I'm not allowed to do so in those threads now. This post isn't to complain about the fact that H&U dropped equipment coverage, but to address those who want to publicly complain (some under the guise of being humorous) about the coverage changes and those who filed claims. Why would anyone want to publicly ask who crashed? Why does it matter who crashed? What good is it knowing who filed claims?
Who has made claims if you don't mind confessing. Just wondered who I'm helping out with new equipment....
Pretty bold statements.

I'm thankful we have liability coverage. Our business had it for 2 years before H&U even offered their Aerial Pak so it is available elsewhere. Take your blinders off and do some research because H&U isn't the only agency willing to provide liability insurance for businesses like ours. We went with H&U because they provided affordable coverage on our equipment and their liability coverage was very comparable to what we had been paying. Sure it's disheartening now that they no longer provide equipment coverage for new policies and renewals (they need to update their website BTW), but I'm not about to come on a public forum and directly or indirectly blame everyone who filed a claim for causing H&U to drop the coverage or increase the rates. They're a business and they need to make money and they did what they feel is in their best interest.

First of all, what the he** is insurance coverage for anyway? No one wants to file a claim, but we carry the insurance in the unfortunate event that we have to file a claim. I don't complain to my auto and homeowners insurance agent when my rates go up because of people filing claims. It's part of the business. Sure it's aggravating but I don't seek information asking who had losses and who filed claims. Now filing fraudulent claims is a whole different story but I doubt anyone who filed a claim with H&U did so fraudulently. I could be wrong but at least I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. Most, if not all, AP'ers carry insurance because they want to run a legitimate and honest business -- not file fraudulent claims.

I think the idea of self insuring your equipment by setting aside some money to cover it is a smart thing to do. At least we as an industry can obtain liability insurance -- something most of us could not afford to handle on our own if we should have a very unfortunate accident.
i structured my AP/V business around having insurance to cover my considerably nicer equipment than your T-Rex 600.
Insinuating that someone's equipment is inferior just because it costs less is simply childish. We've all seen Derek's (trackhead) work with his "inferior" equipment and he cranks out some killer video! The guy knows more about video and editing than most of us on here and he's only been producing aerial video for a few months. Pretty da** good if you ask me.
i dont know about the majority of you, but i've got over $40,000 invested in my AP/V venture and i don't have an extra $7,000 - $8,000 laying around for a replacement heli/mount/camera system in the event of a crash-related catastrophe.
If your equipment is so superior, then you should be raking in the cash hand over fist and have plenty in reserve should you need to cover your gear in the event of a mishap. C'mon, it's time to check the egos and stop throwing sand.

Seriously guys, it's OK to vent and complain but don't ask for information that is none of your business or blame others for making legitimate claims.

One word.... whaaaa!

Just my thoughts.


Tony

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03-07-2008 04:35 PM  10 years agoPost 2
xcellgasman101

rrElite Veteran

WOODWARD, OKLA....

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Tony,, I agreee,, good post,, we just add a little more to the invoice to help cover any mishaps to equipment, It just how we have been doing it from the beginning.. Just like AMA,, They will cover the cost of what you hit, and tear up. But not your airplane, or heli, in the event of a crash,, Well good luck to all.. XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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03-07-2008 04:55 PM  10 years agoPost 3
Brady Longmore

rrApprentice

Idaho Falls, ID

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Good rant.

nobody wants to pay out of pocket the expenses of a crash. I used to be a news photographer for a local TV station, and if I dropped one of their very expensive cameras and broke it, there was no insurance to pay for it. However, there was insurance if I got into a car wreck while driving to a story and hurt somebody. If the insurance company was getting a claim for every time a camera was damaged - Thankfully never by me - you can bet they wouldn't have been providing that service for long.

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03-07-2008 04:57 PM  10 years agoPost 4
CKY

rrVeteran

Sunshine Coast, BC, Canada

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Insurance has crept into every facet of our lives.

It is something we get because we have been conditioned to believe we need it, and that has become a fact of life.

Insurance companies have been number crunching for centuries, they know how long you are going to live if you smoke, how many vehicle accidents you will cause in your life time and how many times you will fall down someone's steps and how many 747'2 will bite the dust.

But AP??

If an adjuster went to a local flying field and counted mishaps to calculate odds, we are doomed. Kind of like watching bumber cars at the carnaval to examine collision frequency of full size cars.

Wanting equipment insurance for crash damage, give me a break. If you do crash, just pick up all the pieces and throw them into a lake or river and make a claim against your home owner's insurance as being stolen. You don't own a home? Then why are you wasting time with this stuff?

Insurance is only needed to get the work, prove to the authorities that you a semi(?)legitimate, and protect the public and your customers from acts of stupidity.

Insurance is just a tax paid to big busines so you can make money to pay more taxes to the government. You don't claim any income from AP?

I just like the sound of the word "conundrum" conundrum n. A riddle in which a fanciful question is answered by a pun. A paradoxical, insoluble, or difficult problem; a dilemma.

My 1.87 cents

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03-07-2008 05:22 PM  10 years agoPost 5
trackhead

rrKey Veteran

utah

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Good and thoughtful posts by all.

On the note of self crash insurance:

1. My last gig paid for my current junker Trex.
2. My current gig is paying for my backup junker Trex I just bought, and then some.
3. I structure my rates around paying for my junk in the event of a crash. I don't sell out and work for dirt. If the client doesn't want to pay my daily rate, I walk.
4. My next gig in Vegas will pay for beer and gambling money, and another few junker Trex's and cheap HDV cams in the event that I need them.
5. I have little emotion tied up in my junk. I sleep well at night. And most importantly, I'm having fun.

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03-07-2008 05:41 PM  10 years agoPost 6
aambrose

rrElite Veteran

Pana, IL

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Thanks guys.
It is something we get because we have been conditioned to believe we need it, and that has become a fact of life.
More along the lines of it's something most of us get because we need it in the event of a liability claim. In our line of business, we can inflict major damage to people and property (including death). Something we personally can't handle out of our pocket.
Insurance is only needed to get the work, prove to the authorities that you a semi(?)legitimate, and protect the public and your customers from acts of stupidity.
I wouldnt quite say that all claims filed are due to "acts of stupidity". Accidents happen beyond our control no matter how careful an individual may be.

Derek


Tony

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03-07-2008 06:01 PM  10 years agoPost 7
whitetrash

rrApprentice

Spain

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1. My last gig paid for my current junker Trex.
Oh man I need a gig like yours! I have junker gigs and expensive helicopters LOL

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03-07-2008 06:12 PM  10 years agoPost 8
CKY

rrVeteran

Sunshine Coast, BC, Canada

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Derek,

I used to work for a company that really stressed saftey. When you get right down to it there are no "accidents".

Somewhere in the chain of events there was one, usually more, incidents that caused the "accident".

From loosing finger tips on a table saw, getting centerpunched in an intersection, flinging a camera off a mast, to repairing flood damage in a basement, all were avoidable by one party or parties.

With the added stress of todays world (shouldn't technology help relieve stress?) more corners are cut, assumptions made, and attention to details reduced. Somewhere, somehow, someone is responsible. It falls on the adjusters and courts to figure out who, and for what amount.

Insurance is the price we pay for offloading some of our responsibilities.

Chris

PS...by now you see I hate insurance companies

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03-07-2008 06:16 PM  10 years agoPost 9
kookboy

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, BC

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5. I have little emotion tied up in my junk. I sleep well at night. And most importantly, I'm having fun.
At the end of the day this is what matters the most.

Getting paid, sleeping well and having fun.

Jesse

... But honey it was only $$$

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03-07-2008 09:26 PM  10 years agoPost 10
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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If the “p” was an “l” I might agree with you.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-07-2008 11:03 PM  10 years agoPost 11
kiwidave1

rrVeteran

Seattle, WA

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I was gutted he closed that last thread. He had just offered to hook me up with his wife. GUTTED!!

Tony, thats what I meant to say but couldn't be bothered typing it

Nicely said.

Cheers!

David

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

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03-08-2008 12:16 AM  10 years agoPost 12
Brady Longmore

rrApprentice

Idaho Falls, ID

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4. My next gig in Vegas will pay for beer and gambling money, and another few junker Trex's and cheap HDV cams in the event that I need them.
Derek, You mind hooking me up with some of these so-called CHEAP HDV cams?

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03-08-2008 12:46 AM  10 years agoPost 13
trackhead

rrKey Veteran

utah

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Derek, You mind hooking me up with some of these so-called CHEAP HDV cams?
Sure, Paypal me 10 meeeeellion dollahs to my cousins bank account in Africa. We'll send them right out after we receive your funds.

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03-08-2008 12:52 AM  10 years agoPost 14
Soundwave

rrNovice

USA

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great idea. let's keep opening threads to talk **** and keep beating this dead horse. let's keep trolling and spamming the board by opening topics about closed discussions so we can make sure we get the last word in.

insurance companies don't stop carrying coverage because of a few claims. this policy was completely abused. I know this because I asked Andre himself.

color me impressed that you make enough money from each gig to buy a T-Rex 600. wow. if only I could make that kind of money.

lmao.

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03-08-2008 01:02 AM  10 years agoPost 15
trackhead

rrKey Veteran

utah

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color me impressed that you make enough money from each gig to buy a T-Rex 600. wow. if only I could make that kind of money.

lmao.
If only you could, then you could afford to self insure those fine aircraft that you purchased.
let's keep trolling and spamming the board by opening topics about closed discussions so we can make sure we get the last word in.
You closed the discussion. Others were still discussing the topic. But you didn't like the way it was going.

I'm excited your back. Did you bring your shovel?

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03-08-2008 01:27 AM  10 years agoPost 16
trackhead

rrKey Veteran

utah

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I received an interesting PM from one of our Runryder contributors recently. Here it is.
**** you. judging by our respective equipment i can assure you that i've got more money than you to fly. i closed the thread because your 'i fly a cheap piece of **** with a crappy little camera so i think i'm in league with the big boys' bull**** was distracting from the topic.

it's posers like yourself that are slowly but surely ruining this craft.
He's in with the "Big Boys".

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03-08-2008 01:55 AM  10 years agoPost 17
xcellgasman101

rrElite Veteran

WOODWARD, OKLA....

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Nothing like paying for your hobby, by useing your hobby to make the money,,, Hell,, Thats what LIFE is about,, be Happy,,

I'm glad soundwave posted here, cause, I had a question for him in his last post,,,
but i've got over $40,000 invested in my AP/V venture and i don't have an extra $7,000 - $8,000 laying around for a replacement heli/mount/camera system in the event of a crash-related catastrophe.
By my calculations, thats about 5 complete systems, if you have that much money, why are you complaining Just a question,,

I probley have about the same amount in MY AP busines too, but it's not all at risk when I'm in the air,, Probley about $7,000.00 to 8,000.00, But your not likley to loose the whole system,, Like me I have a Helicam Solution Broadcast 360 mount with the Mark IV gimble, If it gets crashed,, put all the pieces in a box ship it to Jody, and get a New mount back in the mail... Now hows that for service,,,
So I loose the camera, maybe, and downlink, batterys, and rebuild on the heli, So lets say,, 2,000.00 to get back into the air,, Now it doesn't take long to make that in jobs, so just put a little back from each job, and your set,, and if you have 40,000.00 into you business,, then you must have plenty of replacement parts to get back into the air, asap,, IMHO... Not flamming or gettin down on anybody,, but you have to do a little thinking when running a busines,.... XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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03-08-2008 02:40 AM  10 years agoPost 18
Soundwave

rrNovice

USA

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as per my original topic, I have 7-8k in the air and on the ground (per system). so you are right on that. I've already stated as much. I have 2 complete systems, multiple cameras, laptops, H&H trailer, graphics, promotional materials, etc. again - about 40k invested in my business. it used to be insured against a catastophic crash, now it's not.

I worked very hard for what I have and I've done well with it. so what if I'm unhappy about the policy change brought on from abuse of said policy. that doesn't really justify trolls like trackhead attacking people who's businesses were affected. all he can do is talk **** and poke fun of other people's predicament because he's got nothing better to do and because well - he's a forum troll.

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03-08-2008 03:01 AM  10 years agoPost 19
trackhead

rrKey Veteran

utah

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Soundwave,

I'm not a troll. I've contributed what insight I have and tips that I find might be useful to the collective community. You, on the other had......have contributed nothing.

If you visit your original thread, you will see I never posted anything but my opinions. Then you proceed to tell me to shut the _ _ _ _ up.

You started your infamous other thread with broad based accusations against your peers. It was highly offensive. Then you got over emotional and attacked me for my opinions from the other thread. Then you proceded to send inflammatory private messages with foul language in a far less than professional matter.

It is you who have been irrational, time and again.

Perhaps anger management counseling would be in order.

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03-08-2008 03:13 AM  10 years agoPost 20
kookboy

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, BC

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that doesn't really justify trolls like trackhead attacking people who's businesses were affected.
Soundwave.

H&U dropping that portion affects everyone running a legitimate/insured AP/AV business.

Jesse

ps. Trackhead's not a troll. He's got some ingenious idea's and great material put out with average-ish equipment. Starting a pissing contest is the most childish thing to do on a forum like this. It's not about who's got the bigger gear or bigger balls. If you have a vested interest/investment in your own business, you should know better.

... But honey it was only $$$

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