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HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignOther › rudder linkage conflict
03-06-2008 09:00 AM  10 years agoPost 1
alexyw

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Canada

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I have a question for the rudder servo linkage set up for the 611 on the 600N Pro. I searched the posts and seems we have 2 kinds of setting. One is with some right offset of the tail blade and the other is without offset when rudder servo is centered. I think the without right offset can only be fly in HH mode and we should have the right offset if we want to fly with non HH mode. With right offset the linkage limit will be a big difference for “A” and “B” (left and right) if we want a full range of travel of the slider. Or I should give up some left travel in order to have similar limit for both side. Please enlighten me as I have never fly with non HH mode and would like to have a trial. Thanks,

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03-06-2008 09:12 AM  10 years agoPost 2
MJHiscott92504

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James Hiscott , Germany for past 11 months

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I dont know......
......however I am going to watch your post closely and hopefully learn more about the GY611 and increase my RC heli eduction....Jim

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03-06-2008 11:06 AM  10 years agoPost 3
chopper37

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NJ and Long Island

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alexyw: you are correct, if you want to get "full" and equal a/b travel, offsetting the servo wheel will give you this, I personnally go for setting everything ar 90 degs and the tail blades centered and give up just alittle travel on the t/r shaft. thats works for me and my flying style. You should put some delay on the 611 with the TT, to prevent breaking gears.

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03-07-2008 01:42 AM  10 years agoPost 4
alexyw

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Canada

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Thanks, Chopper37. Can you elaborate "give up just a little travel on the t/r shaft". What is t/r shaft?

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03-07-2008 07:09 PM  10 years agoPost 5
chopper37

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NJ and Long Island

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Sorry to confuse you, the tail rotor output shaft that the pitch slider is on.

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03-07-2008 07:28 PM  10 years agoPost 6
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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You can always set the A & B travels the same and then use the trim to set the tail in rate mode.

Once you have done that, you can initialize the gyro in HH. The gyro will see the trim position as the center. Thus, they heli will hold in rate mode, and it will work in HH.

I have done this and it works just fine, but...

* I don't use rate mode, except for set up.
* this will only work with Futaba gyros.
* This is the lazy mans way.

The proper thing to do would be to make mechanical adjustments here. Or you can just ignore it. Center the tail, and have the A & B travel the same. Just don't go into rate mode while your flying.

Old Guys Rule!

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03-07-2008 08:11 PM  10 years agoPost 7
tchavei

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Portugal

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Ok.

Here are my two cents.

Mechanical setup for a hands free hover is a must. I won't enter in discussions if the tail servo works less or the same (I believe it works the same) when setup this way but it will help you in the long run. Altough I personally never liked doing that procedure, I've learned through the years that it will pay off sooner or later. I had a friend of mine suddently crash because he somehow managed to flick the HH switch and since his rate mode was completely off, heli started to spin until... well you know...

About equal limits or not. I've spoken extensively about this with Angelos (Spartan - DS760 rings a bell?) and it really doesn't matter as long as you give enough travel to each side. The gyro will perform the same whenever your limits are 120/120 or 90/130. The gyro doesn't care about it.

Aditionally, there are some gyros that depend on mechanical center alot (Logictech comes to my mind. It only performed to its peak when the mechanical rate setup was perfect). This isn't so with futaba (or it doesn't seem to be) but correct mechanical offset should be done.

Btw, about bindings. There is alot of talk through Runryder that one should just ignore the limits because it won't bind in flight. I find that idiotic. If the servo is programmed to use full travel, it will use full travel. At least the top gyros will (spartan,logictech, solid-g and 611). Eventhough the sensor inside might not be able to track suck a high speed rotation, if you command the gyro to give max rotation, it will obey and catch the tail when you get of the stick. In that situation, it WILL bind and hit the tailcase hard.

Last weekend a friend of mine ripped off a tail rotor by doing a xxx piro. I say xxx because he didn't adjust the limits and I wasn't able to count them... the tail was a complete blur. Seconds later the tail rotor control arm snapped.

again... my two cents.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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03-07-2008 08:20 PM  10 years agoPost 8
chopper37

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NJ and Long Island

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well said, i like the xxx, had a friend to the same thing, he did not tell he mad a adjustment! to the tail and asked me to test fly his heli, that 540 turned into a blur, lol

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03-07-2008 09:04 PM  10 years agoPost 9
brcg123

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Wagoner OK USA

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are you guys talking about the 611 only setting up that way, or are you supposed to set the 401 in a similar way? i just put everything at 90 degrees, centered the blades, and then turned the linkage two turns in, and it flys ok, is that the right way?








Trex700N, Trex600N, Raptor70, RaptorTitan, GMPCrickett, Visa

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03-07-2008 10:03 PM  10 years agoPost 10
chopper37

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NJ and Long Island

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i set the 401/611 the same way, dont even do the 2 turns, but that works for my flying style, you might want to get really into the mech setup for some max performance

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03-07-2008 11:05 PM  10 years agoPost 11
Spartan RC

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Oxford, UK

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With all heading hold gyros should always set your limits for the maximum available travel and not more as some people mistakenly do. Heading hold gyros are not like traditional rate gyros. They will not oppose the pilot's inputs and therefore there is no need to overdrive the limits as people traditionally did.

You can still do xxx piros (I call them super piros) and you can do them safely too if your gyro has a deceleration adjustment to come to a gradual stop. Below is a little clip I filmed last summer. Counting the number of video frames to do two full turns I estimated yaw rate 1200deg/sec. Of course at that speed the gyro does no longer maintain piro consistency as the heli yaws faster than the measurement capability of the sensor. However, it kicks back in as soon as the heli decelerates into the operating range of the sensor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-wzO8bh5Kk
There is alot of talk through Runryder that one should just ignore the limits because it won't bind in flight. I find that idiotic. If the servo is programmed to use full travel, it will use full travel.
Correct! Remember, the gyro is in control of the tail; not you. You tell the gyro what to do and the gyro decides how to do it. Some people thing that they will never yaw fast enough to use full travel but the gyro may do this for other reasons. For example it will very likely use full tail pitch when you do a hard stop.

-Angelos

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03-07-2008 11:36 PM  10 years agoPost 12
tchavei

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Portugal

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I was wondering when you would chime in

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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03-08-2008 04:58 PM  10 years agoPost 13
alexyw

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Canada

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Thanks for all your advise. I will do the mechanical set up for a hand free hover. I have not done this when I use my old 401 as I have to give up quite a lot of left travel (the 401 can not be set with different limit for left and right). With 611, I can set different limit and I can still use the full travel for both directions (no binding of course). Thanks again!

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03-10-2008 04:53 AM  10 years agoPost 14
alexyw

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Canada

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In order to have full travel for both left and right, I have to set the limits at about 130/70 if the servo arm is at 90 deg. Is there any disadvantage for me to off set the servo arm to bring the 2 limits closer? Or it is better to leave the limits at 130/70. Thanks,

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03-10-2008 05:08 AM  10 years agoPost 15
Simmer

rrElite Veteran

Massachusetts

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Angelos / Tony, thanks for the lesson in rate mode gyros. I have the 401 and will be getting a sparten or 770 in a few weeks. I needed the reeducation as I have learned old school and never owned a true shall I call it no rate mode? or True HH gyro?

Dont know, I thought the 401 was a true HH gyro so I am digging for the correct term. I don't set it to over drive but I used to about 8 years ago before the 401 (jr400 and telebee were before the 401s)

Nice vid Angelo, I have never seen one so quick, looking forward to doing that once in a while safely Ill make sure I put the delay in there. I actually was told at one time that the Xcell I bought had tossed the tail tube when the heli was spun super fast so to be careful with it (guy who sold it to me told me this)

I am in the same camp as you saying it doesnt have to be equal on both sides. I just dont see how that is possible, if you set the extra few degress to get a mechanical hover with no trim.

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