RunRyder RC
 23  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 8 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 8027 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Charmouth and 2.4 GHz
03-06-2008 07:48 AM  10 years agoPost 1
pchristy

rrApprentice

Devon, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Some of you will already be aware that there have been issues recently with certain types of 2.4 GHz radios. After consultation with the British agents and the BMFA, the AHA has decided that use of the affected sets will be permitted at Charmouth, but subject to certain restrictions.

Sets known to be susceptible to the "zero-id" bug will only be allowed out one at a time, as a safety measure. These sets cannot interfere with other manufacturers 2.4 GHz equipment, or even correctly operating equipment from the same manufacturer. But they can and do interact with each other if mishandled.

The AHA is aware that the manufacturers and importers are working on a permanent solution to the problem, but until this is implemented this restriction will stay in place at AHA events.

Updated information can be found on the AHA website at http://www.aha-online.org.uk

Please note that ONLY EU spec 2.4 GHz radios will be allowed!

--
Pete Christy

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 11:12 AM  10 years agoPost 2
dazzaster

rrKey Veteran

right next door to hell

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

not to hi jack the post
but you say the following
The AHA is aware that the manufacturers and importers are working on a permanent solution to the problem
does that mean that even though ive had my set tested and passed there is still a problem?

A.K.A 509

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 01:32 PM  10 years agoPost 3
pchristy

rrApprentice

Devon, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yes! The sets can become "zeroed" at any time, particularly if switched off before its finished "booting" at switch on!

If this happens, your receiver will need rebinding - which is the clue!

As event organisers, the AHA has to take all reasonable precautions. Provided only one of each affected type of Tx is allowed out at any given time, there shouldn't be a problem. We felt that was preferable to the alternative outright ban!

--
Pete

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 01:36 PM  10 years agoPost 4
fritzthecat

rrKey Veteran

Virginia Beach, VA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So are you banning/restricting XPS (Graupner IFS) because it doesn't frequency hop?
Do you inspect all JR/Spectrum installs to make sure the voltage supply is adequate or the RX has been upgraded to fast rebind?
Retricting the FASST system is a bit of a kneejerk reaction especially if the TX has been tested and or upgraded. Once it's upgraded the TX/Module can't go ZGUID. And if the non-modded Tx does, the owner should know within seconds of turning on.

Fritz


'Send Money, Women and Guns!'

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 01:50 PM  10 years agoPost 5
dazzaster

rrKey Veteran

right next door to hell

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

i would of thought it would be a better idea or even brillant idea if the organizers borowed from a model shop or even ripmax the testing equipment so they would not have to worry then about anyone being on the zero-id and at the same time the pilots can have there tx tested. if tx control just ran the test each time a pilot collected his 2.4 faast tx rather than stop every one with the faast system flying at the same time.

A.K.A 509

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 02:20 PM  10 years agoPost 6
pchristy

rrApprentice

Devon, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

As I've already said, testing it proves nothing. It can zero the next time it is switched on!

The ONLY sets that have been modified so far here in the UK are the 7Cs. For the other affected sets (6EX and TM-7) there is no fix available at present. We just have to be careful.

As far as we know, none of the other sets interact with each other. I've only seen a sample of the Graupner IFS set, I don't know of anyone using one yet, but as far as I am aware, it doesn't cause problems for other sets.

The Spektrum "brown-out" issue is NOT a radio fault. It is down to the use of inadequate battery supplies and/or poor quality switches. The voltage should NEVER drop as low as 3.5 volts if everything is working properly.

We cannot legislate for poor maintenance, any more than we can for dodgy ball-joints, or loose screws! But we would be derilict in our duty as organisers if we did not take reasonable precautions to guard against interaction between radios with known problems.

--
Pete

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 02:22 PM  10 years agoPost 7
Four Stroker

rrElite Veteran

Atlanta

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Paul Beard is second only to Mary Kay in his marketing genius.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 02:47 PM  10 years agoPost 8
heliboy1023

rrVeteran

Tinton Falls, NJ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yes! The sets can become "zeroed" at any time, particularly if switched off before its finished "booting" at switch on!

If this happens, your receiver will need rebinding - which is the clue!

As event organisers, the AHA has to take all reasonable precautions. Provided only one of each affected type of Tx is allowed out at any given time, there shouldn't be a problem. We felt that was preferable to the alternative outright ban!

--
Pete
Here in the states at least, from my understanding futaba is replacing the memory which controls the codes at boot-up where it can't be reset (i forget what the memory for that is now and what they are changing it to) so if their radio was checked out, and all new 7c fasst's have this issue fixed.

You know you have to many heli's only when your wallet is empty.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 02:56 PM  10 years agoPost 9
fritzthecat

rrKey Veteran

Virginia Beach, VA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

For the other affected sets (6EX and TM-7) there is no fix available at present
The TM-7 module CANNOT jump to a ZGUID. After it has been tested, the TM-7 is good to go.
Only TM-7 modules with bad coding will need to have the update. They are immune to coding problems if they have the correct coding.

_____________________________

Bill Baxter, Manager Hobby Services/Futaba Service/North America
3002 N. Apollo Dr. Ste. 1 Champaign, IL 61822 USA
Service Phone: 217 398-0007
Email: hobbyservices@hobbico.com
Fritz


'Send Money, Women and Guns!'

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 03:52 PM  10 years agoPost 10
dazzaster

rrKey Veteran

right next door to hell

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The TM-7 module CANNOT jump to a ZGUID. After it has been tested, the TM-7 is good to go
that was my thoughts exactly.
also to add when i had my tx tested (ihave the ff9 with the faast module) place of testing had to put a sticker on from ripmax that says do not turn off within 5 sec of turning on.
as far as im concerned there is nothing wrong with my transmitter.
provided that all faast systems are tested at charmouth i cant see why there is a problem as this is the manufactorers remedy and the tx works fine. if your saying there not ok then can you contact futaba for me and tell them i want a replacement or a full refund for my tx and the module plus all my rx because if i do it the answer is no because theres nothing wrong!!
will you ground all 35 mhz transmitters as there is a risk of the crystal falling out out of the rx or tx?

A.K.A 509

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 04:30 PM  10 years agoPost 11
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Although I'm not attending Charmouth, concerning this:
The ONLY sets that have been modified so far here in the UK are the 7Cs. For the other affected sets (6EX and TM-7) there is no fix available at present. We just have to be careful.
I would advise you to check Robbe's bulletin. Robbe is swapping the internal memory board on all 6EX and firmware upgrading all 7Cs they have sold prior to the discovery of the bug. After the update/upgrade there shouldn't be any further issues.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 04:33 PM  10 years agoPost 12
dazzaster

rrKey Veteran

right next door to hell

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

also a pair of transmitters are only going to affect each other if both owners ignore futabas instructions and turn them on and off with in 5 sec there is also no garenttee that turning on and off within 5 sec will set the tx to zero and if it did the pilot would know about it. a simple sign posted up with all faast systems must be tested first before use followed by a warning along the lines off "if useing faast system and you turn on your tx to find your rx is not receiveing a signal from tx you must return to tx control and have your tx retested" this way the safety issue has been adressed. also if a pilot does come back to tx control with a system thats reset to zero then the AHA can help futaba by presenting to them the circumstances of how the reset took place and help futaba and a load of users at the same time (thats provided there is a real issue)
i cant see why theres a problem as all other events around the world dont seem to be affected now that testing stations have been set up.
As I've already said, testing it proves nothing. It can zero the next time it is switched on!
i belive youll find that it wont zero the next time you turn on but could the next time you turn off if it was within 5 sec of turning on!!
Darren

A.K.A 509

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 05:41 PM  10 years agoPost 13
pchristy

rrApprentice

Devon, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

All we can do is go on the latest information provided by the British agents.

At present they are telling us that the TM-7 modules CAN become zeroed if switched off at the right moment, shortly after switching on.

They also tell us that they have NO modification kits for 6EX or TM-7 modules at the present time.

Even if they had, it is unlikely they would be able to recall and fix all the sets before the April Charmouth meet.

This is a very overcrowded little island, and our flying sites likewise tend to be very busy. Chartmouth is a very well attended event, and the sky is regularly chock-full of helicopters.

Under the circumstances we have two choices: 1) Ban all the affected sets, or 2) Allow them under reasonable restrictions.

Frankly, I would much rather be seen as being heavy handed, than see someone decaptitated at what is meant to be a fun event!

I believe the restrictions being applied are reasonable under the circumstances and were, at least in part, suggested by the British agents.

--
Pete

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 06:04 PM  10 years agoPost 14
dazzaster

rrKey Veteran

right next door to hell

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

so if the AHA advises the bmfa over the aspects of useing these systems, why has no action been taken to ensure that only 1 person at a time flys at any club in the uk. i understand that charmouth is a public event so safety is paramount but then i could say the same about my club safety is no 1 and we act by any bmfa bulletins. for instance with the latest bulleting every one in the club who uses this system went and had there system tested but before the test was available we checked with each other.
so whats the difrence?

A.K.A 509

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 06:12 PM  10 years agoPost 15
4eye

rrApprentice

Honolulu

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

"So are you banning/restricting XPS (Graupner IFS) because it doesn't frequency hop?"

XPS's alleged non-hopping issue is just that - alleged. It's been proven that it does "hop" (selects a clean frequency on boot-up)which really isn't hopping. It doesn't interfere with other 2.4 users because it follows FCC rules and that's the main thing.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 06:27 PM  10 years agoPost 16
dazzaster

rrKey Veteran

right next door to hell

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

when any new radio system comes out there could be issues.
who knows there could be issues with the dx system or the xps system its just perhaps we havnt found them yet. the problem with futaba was discovered just by accident and futaba have acted ,issued testing stations and reworked the manufactoring process and also issued a warning about not turning off within 5sec of turning on.
now we know about the warning it makes the faast system no difrent to any other radio in the fact that there may be other faults that just havent been discovered so in my opinion as long as its been tested its fine to use if someone is saying its not then that person can speak to futaba on my behalf becuase if its not fine then its not suitable for perpose and i would want a full refund.
if a tested system has its code wiped to zero and the pilot goes out and flies it along with another pilot thats done the same then they have not followed the 5 second limit on the turn off/on procedure. this is no diffrence than a pilot starting his engine with the throttle full open it comes down to pilot error.
and does the AHA or the BMFA stand behind every pilot to ensure they start there engines with the stick at idle?

A.K.A 509

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 07:03 PM  10 years agoPost 17
Droid

rrElite Veteran

Deep down in the Southwest- UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This is a load of BS, think i'll give it a miss this year. There are far more reasons why someone can be injured than Tx control. I would say that every model should be scrutineered before they fly rather than worry about isolated misuse of Tx control cases.

2.4G was supposed to take this aspect away from these sort of events.

Thats the problem when you let the fun police get hold of something.....

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 07:04 PM  10 years agoPost 18
4eye

rrApprentice

Honolulu

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

"...then they have not followed the 5 second limit on the turn off/on procedure. this is no diffrence than a pilot starting his engine with the throttle full open it comes down to pilot error."

It's not the same thing. A problem with a radio system is the manufacturers fault. Not everyone stays informed on the latest news. in fact, I have a friend that I fly with that I know doesn't know about the 5 second rule. He doesn't browse forums and keep himself informed of the latest news very often. he's an older gent that just likes to fly and doesn't use the computer a lot. he's never even ordered anything online before.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 07:06 PM  10 years agoPost 19
Droid

rrElite Veteran

Deep down in the Southwest- UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It's not the same thing. A problem with a radio system is the manufacturers fault. Not everyone stays informed on the latest news. in fact, I have a friend that I fly with that I know doesn't know about the 5 second rule. He doesn't browse forums and keep himself informed of the latest news very often. he's an older gent that just likes to fly and doesn't use the computer a lot. he's never even ordered anything online before.
Does he live with his head in the sand, does he not talk amongst fellow flyers?? You say he's your friend surely you let him know of the latest developments??

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-06-2008 07:08 PM  10 years agoPost 20
dazzaster

rrKey Veteran

right next door to hell

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

hence why i sudjested that a test staition be set up at charmouth and all tx be tested at transmitter control, then all tx would be tested and the sticker applied and all flying at the event would know about it.
p.s if you know that he doesnt know about it , wouldnt it be a sensible to let hin know
Darren

A.K.A 509

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 8 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 8027 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Charmouth and 2.4 GHz
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 23  Topic Subscribe

Friday, June 22 - 5:07 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online