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HomeAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › Questions for CarbSmart Users
03-05-2008 05:20 PM  10 years agoPost 1
JimmyD

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Largo, FL

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Hey Guys,
After weeks of debating its value I’ve finally ordered a CarbSmart for my Titan. The servo mount is already worked out but I have a couple of question before I go further with the install.

My setup: Titan50, OS Hyper, JK Hatori, 30% Cool Power.

1. What kind of overall adjustment range are you setting up for?
2. How do things act at startup? It would seem that the Carbsmart would go full lean off the bat since the temp is low. Does this create issues?
3. 110C (230F) is what I read most folks setting up for. This seems awfully hot! I’ve used a Venom temp gauge in the past and I’ve never seen anything over 200F measured on the top fin of the actual cylinder, not on the blue heat sink head. Opinions on this?
4. Over all every one that is running CarbSmart seems happy, tell me your opinion.

Thanks!!
Jimmy D

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03-05-2008 07:16 PM  10 years agoPost 2
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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1. What kind of overall adjustment range are you setting up for?
- On the 50 Hyper carb I a getting a range from just lean of 1.5 to just rich of 1 turn, with about 1.25 turn as failsafe (30% CY mix on am MP5)

2. How do things act at startup? It would seem that the Carbsmart would go full lean off the bat since the temp is low. Does this create issues?
- Yes, it starts up at full lean. No problems there.

3. 110C (230F) is what I read most folks setting up for. This seems awfully hot! I’ve used a Venom temp gauge in the past and I’ve never seen anything over 200F measured on the top fin of the actual cylinder, not on the blue heat sink head. Opinions on this?

-230 right at the combustion chamber top, measured on aluminum, not through the steel liner should be ok.

4. Over all every one that is running CarbSmart seems happy, tell me your opinion.
- see my write up on the Raptor section. I have CarbSmart x5 right now, and would not run without one.

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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03-06-2008 01:33 PM  10 years agoPost 3
JimmyD

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Largo, FL

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Thanks for the reply Jim!
I actually have read your review, that's what put me over the edge on buying the CarbSmart.
Another question. When installing the sensor you are to place the tip of the sensor against the inner most portion of the head, against the out side of the combustion chamber, correct? I am assuming that you'd try to get a minimum of the thermal epoxy at this point or does that not realy matter?
Thanks again for your input.
Jimmy D

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03-06-2008 07:51 PM  10 years agoPost 4
SRH990

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Birmingham, UK

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With mine I smeared thermal transfer compound used for PC processor heatsinks on the end of the sensor, pushed it fully between the fins so the end is in contact with the alloy then surrounded with epoxy. You can use a thermal epoxy which transfers heat almost as well and fix it in the same manner although it isn't cheap to buy. I have seen somewhere that someone has used ordinary epoxy mixed with thermal transfer compound with success, you can also use RTV but I would have thought that this was more an insulant.

Steve -Trex 700N, Trex 600N, Raptor 550E, 450SE, Mini Titan, Logo 5003D, Beam E4

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03-06-2008 08:06 PM  10 years agoPost 5
Funky Trex

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Westerville, OH - USA

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I have seen somewhere that someone has used ordinary epoxy mixed with thermal transfer compound with success
I mixed normal epoxy with thermal compound (1/1) when mounting the sensors on one of my engines and it seems to work ok. I can't tell a difference (in the air) from the engine I did with thermal epoxy. I picked up the thermal compound at Radio Shack, they didn't have the actual thermal epoxy. For the 2nd motor I just ordered the themal epoxy from GrandRC.com.

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03-06-2008 08:50 PM  10 years agoPost 6
JimmyD

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Largo, FL

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Thanks Guy,
I actually ordered (from GrandRC)the Thermal Epoxy with my CarbSmart. I can't wait to try it out this weekend!
Thanks,
Jimmy D

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03-06-2008 09:39 PM  10 years agoPost 7
bob00

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Toronto, ON

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Don't get too hung up on the actual temp. setting - this will vary with different setups.

Install it and tune the motor the best you can with the CarbSmart disabled (gain set to zero, servo arm centered), then enable it by setting the gain to 50%+ (ours seem to like about 75%). Start with the temp at about 100c and adjust until you find what works best for your setup.

eg. We have 5 more or less identical helis fitted with CarbSmarts. The ones with Hatori SB18 mufflers like 110c, the ones with MP5's like 100c. Both groups worked very well and remained consistent (no needle tweaking) across a 2c - 30c temp range with varing humidity.

Exhaust aside, the helis mentioned were fitted with...
- OS 91SZ + OMI 60K big bore carbs running PowerMaster 30%
- OMI Viperhead + 20thou shim + 2x OS #8 plugs

- Rob

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03-07-2008 05:37 PM  10 years agoPost 8
Razz

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Louisville, KY

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I emailed CSM asking about what compound they recommended to attach the sensor...something that is easy to get and cheaper. They said that any RTV good for 200C would work. It seems to me that RTV wpould not tranfer heat well, but thats what they said. Permatex makes a red high temp RTV with copper, good for 700F. I thought that the copper would help with heat transfer...what do you think? How about JB weld, it has steel mixed into it I believe, and is recommended for metals.

Brian

DX8, Ballistic FSO, Gaui X5, Warp 360, Vbar

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03-07-2008 05:41 PM  10 years agoPost 9
bob00

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Toronto, ON

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Hey Brian,

We used this stuff...

Works very well but takes a long time to set and was only available in bulk size. These bottles will pretty much serve everyone in our club... forever.

- Rob

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03-07-2008 09:34 PM  10 years agoPost 10
Razz

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Louisville, KY

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Thanks Rob,
What do you think about using a high temp copper RTV vs. an epoxy? Do you think that the sensor is better protected in a hard epoxy vs. a rubbery RTV? I read somewhere on RR that someone used JB weld. I'm starting to think that it's not that critical what is used...CSM sells an RTV for the sensor. But you know, we perfectionists heli pilots want the best for the least price!

Brian

DX8, Ballistic FSO, Gaui X5, Warp 360, Vbar

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03-08-2008 04:39 PM  10 years agoPost 11
bob00

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Toronto, ON

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Hey Brian,

Stupid IE crashed just before hitting the [submit] button .

Copper RTV may be a better thermal conductor but may also be electrically conductive. This may not be an issue since the sensor and it's leads seem reasonably well sealed but you never know. I guess if JB has been working for some it should be ok.

I rather a rubbery bond with some "give" to it 'cause I think the hard mounted sensor will eventually fatigue and fail at the leads without careful installation.

I think the optimal solution would be something that screws into a third hole in a ViperHead or maybe something small enough to screw into the exhaust pressure tap on most mufflers. I as sure better solutions are on the way give how popular this type of device will be going forward.

- Rob

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03-08-2008 04:46 PM  10 years agoPost 12
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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I use 50% JB Weld/Or Epoxy and 50% whatever thermal stuff I have at home.

Only thing you dont want is the sensor to fall loose, no failsafe for that *hint hint CSM*

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03-09-2008 05:44 PM  10 years agoPost 13
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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GrandRC sells small tubes of thermal epoxy for about 7 bucks. One set of tubes did 5 heads for me.

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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03-11-2008 12:52 AM  10 years agoPost 14
JimmyD

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Largo, FL

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After the install:
Well I have my CarbSmart installed but some motor issues kept me from doing any real tweeking. Maybe my poor old Hyper needs a rebuild?
I have the sensor installed in the location CSM recommends using the Artic Silver epoxy. I have the mid-point of the servo travel set to 1.5 turns open, my usual "She runs good" setting (Low end at factory setting) with the lean-rich throw set up for pretty much full range of the servo (HS56). With the temp set for 110 and the gain at 50% it would come back flight after flight in the full rich setting. So I would reset the CarbSmart arm for a richer mid-point in the throw until I got to 2 full turns out. So I'm thinking I definitely have an issue. I did all the stuff I usually do, clean filters, and check clunks, and so on, to no avail. Sadly I had no way to collect temps so I'm not sure of the actual in-flight temp and I have no faith in the finger on the back plate test. Anyway, I’m going to throw in my stand-by hyper and see what the CarbSmart does after I get it run-in a bit.

If anyone has any ideas on what might be bothering the old Hyper speak up cause I’m stumped. It’s got about 8 or 10 gallons thru it and still seems to run strong and makes lots of smoke. Maybe I’ll clean out and rebuild the carb and or replace the bearings, if not she’s going back to OS for a rebuild. FWIW: Titan50, JK Hatori, 30% Cool Power, running 1950 on the 8.72 gears.

Thanks Guys!!
Jimmy D

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03-11-2008 01:08 AM  10 years agoPost 15
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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A couple things.
1. is your mixture adjust screw in the middle of it's range? (centered to carb bore)
2. Are you sure you have the rich/lean directions correct? If you swap the setup sequence it will command full open trying to lean out to get to 110. You set full lean first, followed by full lean, then recycle power and set gain back from 0 to about 50-60%

My take is 1.5 will be way rich as a mid point. I would disconnect and put your throttle ratchet back on and go do a check flight to see where you need to be

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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03-11-2008 02:59 AM  10 years agoPost 16
JimmyD

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Largo, FL

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Jim,
Well you got me thinking, so I checked. Yup I've got everything going to the proper direction. I kind of wish it would have been that simple, but oh well. Tomorrow looks like a great day weather wise, so I'm off to the field tomorrow after work with my freshly cleaned out carb to see if that helps. If not, the new motor gets installed to broken in..
Oh, and yes the mixture control is running at center line to the carb....

Thanks for your input, keep the ideas coming!!

Be Safe.
Jimmy D

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03-12-2008 02:37 AM  10 years agoPost 17
joeycoates

rrApprentice

Dallas, Texas

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I have found the same thing on a YS50, I am running at 1.75 turns and the manual recommends 1.5 to start with. I am kind of wondering if the temp sensor thinks that the engine is hotter than it actually is and trying to richen it up. I have tried using an infrared temp sensor to get some readings, but by time I get down even when trying to hurry the engine has started to cool off and it is going back to lean. I would like to put an Eagletree logger on it but that is just not in the cards right now. Anyway, it seems to be running strong.

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03-12-2008 04:21 AM  10 years agoPost 18
JimmyD

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Largo, FL

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Joey,
I would hope the sensor is correct, there is really no way to check it that I know of. One of my flying buddies has an Eagle Tree set-up. We are going to put it on my Raptor this weekend to get some actual flight numbers. I'll post results here when I get the data. Like I said before, if I it looks like this motor is going south I'll out the new in Saturday.

Jimmy D

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03-12-2008 08:28 AM  10 years agoPost 19
Arild Johansen

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Norway, Flateby

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Jimmy D

Could it be possible that your engine is at the low mixture setting before you land your helicopter? Maybe your mixture needs to be richen up a little bit so the engine temp not increase right before you land your helicopter. Maybe the Carbsmart tries to compensate the temperature with the main needle and it’s actually the low mixture that is lean and rising the temp?

From my point of view it’s just a thought as I just have a Carbsmart at order and haven’t tried it my self yet.

Arild Johansen

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03-12-2008 12:42 PM  10 years agoPost 20
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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I have the CarbSmart and the Eagle Tree and it will amaze you how much these engines heatsoak. I used to shoot my engine with an infrared thermometer. I can tell you from experience that engine is NOT cooling off while you are rushing to get a reading. My data logging shows they heatsoak first. I ran 220 degrees F and after shutdown it went to 260 before it started cooling off.

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