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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 50 › Head Setup - Mixers
03-05-2008 01:50 AM  10 years agoPost 1
CBell

rrApprentice

Nova Scotia, Canada

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There have been a number of requests for some more info on the head setup that Jared and I are currently flying on the Raptor 50.

The idea originated from Eric's (NORTHERNLIGHTS) mod seen below. He used the R90 washout arms as mixers for a much broader pitch range, which changed the flight characteristics for the better.

We've gone a little further and re-located the mixer pivot point in 4mm further than the stock location. This requires a new hole to be drilled in the seesaw. The mixer (R90 washout arm) then needs to be shortened on both ends to retain a flybar ratio similar to stock. It ends up being about 0.85 instead of 1:1. The mixer also has to be spaced out from the seesaw so it doesn't rub against the headblock. All said and done you get a pitch range of +/- 15 deg. Most people probably wont use that much, but it's available if you need it.

If you choose to do this mod you must use the red TT dampers or the infinivation dampers.

Thanks to dad for drawing up the diagrams.

Colin


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03-05-2008 02:33 AM  10 years agoPost 2
Jared Granzow

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Columbus, OH

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Thanks for posting Colin!

I'd like to point out that even if you don't need 15 deg of pitch, this is still a great mod to do to the raptor. The heli just seems to track better in forward flight.

Also, here is picture of Eric's original mod (so it doesn't have the inner hole for the seesaw). I'll use it to better show how the mixer is attached with a normal Thunder Tiger bearing spacer. It does look a little flimsy when you first put it on, but trust me, its up to the challenge

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03-05-2008 05:14 AM  10 years agoPost 3
Santiago P

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South West, Ohio

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Guys,
Any advantage in turning the grips around? I notice it on Eric's and on the last picture.

Santiago

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03-05-2008 11:52 AM  10 years agoPost 4
S Bell

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Nova Scotia Canada

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I thought the thing might bind and that was the reason for the flip but that is in fact not the case. My bad, didn't have the machine present when trying to reason why. Better to ask Eric. This mod has the advantage of being quick and easy with minimal fuss.

For extreme 32 degree throw set-up:

An over center lock up condition is possible due to the mixer and grip ball position being in a notable out of straight alignment (the pitch link has a big slant to it) Eric has not had a problem in flight.

30 degree setup:

In the final analysis having the long end of the mixer as close as it can be to the flybar control arm keeps the long swashplate control rod from rubbing on the head block at high throw conditions associated with flybar teeter. Moving the mixer fulcrum closer to the center along with selecting a correct short mixer end length also keeps the pitch link in a more straight condition eliminating potential over center lockup. It took a bit of tampering to get the ideal geometry for personal taste using stock flybar carrier as a modifier (drilled holes) in conjunction with the stock control arms.

Thanks go to Eric for putting everyone onto the idea of giving an already exceptional, time honored helicopter a new lease on life for top end flight performance. Such a small inexpensive alteration removes any advantage other machines might have had in fast forward flight and pop. We also have that Redline 53 monster taking full advantage a 15/15 collective "no bind'n jam" setup with 7 or more degrees of cyclic.

Below left to right are 30 degree, stock 22 degree, and 32 degree mixers.

Stephen

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03-05-2008 10:14 PM  10 years agoPost 5
S Bell

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Nova Scotia Canada

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bump for edit

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03-06-2008 08:37 AM  10 years agoPost 6
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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I did this to my Rap50 and would not go back. I drilled-tapped the holes 5mm in from the stock which was a little far. I'm gonna try 4mm instead on another flybar carrier.

If you skip me I can't play!

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03-06-2008 05:26 PM  10 years agoPost 7
Shoego Heli

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San Diego, CA, USA

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CBell, have you had a chance to compare this mod to how the 50 flies with a Kasama, Quick UK or G-Force head? My guess is that this mod on your part was done to give someone a good alternative to spending so much on these other aftermarket upgrades.

Having my heli: Cool, Having a working heli: Awesome, Having a day to fly: PRICELESS!

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03-06-2008 05:38 PM  10 years agoPost 8
CBell

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Nova Scotia, Canada

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Shoego Heli,

All and all it's pretty close. The current setup we're using is definitely the most stable around center. The machine tracks like an arrow in FFF, and with the added pitch and cyclic it's extremely quick once you bend the sticks. The Kasama mixers are a definite improevment, but so far I like this better.

Colin

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03-08-2008 05:44 AM  10 years agoPost 9
NORTHERNLIGHTS

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Riverview FL

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Hi Folks,

Colin: Thanks for the credit, but a lot has to go to Jared. We spent one night several months back "2/07" thinking through, and coming up with the original idea. The over center issue never locked the head, and I still have the original mod on my Titan. You, and your Dad have put pen to paper. RESULTS are a "real professional" job refining the idea.

Jared was flying the latest of the mod on his NEW TT53 Titan, and his comments were, well lets say he flew the 50 more than his 90`s at Port Charlotte. There were several others that banged the sticks there as well, and impression was common throughout. The TT53 Titan tracked well in FFF, and the comment I heard from Jared several times while there, and at Triple Creek was "This thing feels better locked in than my 90`s" That in itself ought to be vision enough that this refined setup is what TT ought to include in future kits.
This "MOD" can be done in a very short time with little money spent, but the accuracy of redrilling the seesaw is of utmost importance.

Shoego: I "HAD" been testing a lot of Kasamas products for the 50 size helis, and have to say that the TT Raptor line of parts can be just as good, or better with some slight changes. The TT tail is a good tail, just a tweak here, and there would benefit the likes of people that have a strong demand for tail authority like Jared does while doing his "Piro" maneuvers.

One thing that I will continue working on soon is the thrust bearing installation/mod to the TT tailgrips.

I hope yall have fun in B`Ham, and look forward to seeing all @ IRCHA

B.O.A.T. Break Out Another Thousand!

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03-10-2008 08:46 PM  10 years agoPost 10
Slim pickins

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Clarkston Michigan

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Sweet!

Will the TT flybar cage work with this new 30 degree set up?

Epic Helis

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03-12-2008 03:45 AM  10 years agoPost 11
NORTHERNLIGHTS

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Riverview FL

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Haven`t tried it, but don`t see why not.

B.O.A.T. Break Out Another Thousand!

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03-12-2008 02:57 PM  10 years agoPost 12
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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Here is a pic of the mod on my Top Dragon head with flybar cage. I moved my holes in the carrier in 5mm instead of 4mm to get clearance on the short side of the arm.

If you skip me I can't play!

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03-12-2008 03:03 PM  10 years agoPost 13
S Bell

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Nova Scotia Canada

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PJRono,

Nice job on the install, you're a good man on the file too.

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03-12-2008 03:07 PM  10 years agoPost 14
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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Actually I used a dremel and a sanding block, but Thanks!!! Gotta love them lithium dremels, it's the most used tool in my shop!!!

If you skip me I can't play!

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03-12-2008 03:46 PM  10 years agoPost 15
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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One thing that I will continue working on soon is the thrust bearing installation/mod to the TT tailgrips.
PLEASE - give a hint on what you are thinking?!

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03-12-2008 03:47 PM  10 years agoPost 16
RCHelicopterGuy

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Michigan

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Gotta love them lithium dremels, it's the most used tool in my shop!!!
Amen to that! My only regret is that I bought the &$*! cordless one.

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03-12-2008 05:28 PM  10 years agoPost 17
Slim pickins

rrApprentice

Clarkston Michigan

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PJRono...

How much pitch do you end up with the bells at 5mm? Does it preform as well as with them at 4mm?

I like the flybar cage bling and woulndt want to loose it but for performance increases I just might..

Thanks!!

Epic Helis

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03-12-2008 09:33 PM  10 years agoPost 18
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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Well that's kind of a tricky question because my Raptor is set up with a CCPM conversion from TPPacks not the standard MCCPM. I know I can get 32* but I have it dialed down to +-11. The biggest gain you get is the improvement in the cyclic rate and tracking of the heli.

If you skip me I can't play!

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03-12-2008 09:56 PM  10 years agoPost 19
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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The hole spacing you can go to depends on which head you use. I used two bearing sleeves with two blade bushings to space the arms away from the head. You need to watch so the spacers don't hit the head as the flybar carrier tilts. I would go the 4mm route next time with the TT head. I checked the different heads and the Quick UK head looks to have a thinner profile where the flybar carrier mounts making it easier to use at 5mm.

If you skip me I can't play!

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03-16-2008 10:53 PM  10 years agoPost 20
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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More tail is better
The TT tail is a good tail, just a tweak here, and there would benefit the likes of people that have a strong demand for tail authority like Jared does while doing his "Piro" maneuvers
Eric,
Since you are the man with the bag of Raptor tricks, would you care to share the tweaks for the tail? The only thing I ever done is to use 90-92mm wide chord blades to improve the response.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 50 › Head Setup - Mixers
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