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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › What is the Operating Temperature for Zenoah Engines
03-08-2008 11:43 PM  10 years agoPost 41
xcellgasman101

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WOODWARD, OKLA....

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AceDird, does it all the time, and with every post, it gets a little worse,, He truly thinks he is posting something of value, but he has little experiance with anything to do with flying a helicopter, Check out some of his post,, I used to ignor him, but when he starts posting Harmfull or just plain old BS, then it's time to step in,
I personally think he is just a TROLL, and just trying to get to rrMaster (10000 posts) I think it is a status thing for him,,

I have delt with his kind all my life,, and I wont loose a minute of sleep over anything he post about me,, XGM/VGM

OH YEA,,, They used to call him ACE the ONE GALLON EXPERT, but he has yet to burn a gallon of fuel,

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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03-09-2008 01:48 AM  10 years agoPost 42
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Thanks for posting the graphic display Gyrofreak. Zenoah actually advise to idle for 30 secs after a run due to the temp. peak. Nice to see it confirmed by your data though

Paul.

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03-09-2008 09:14 AM  10 years agoPost 43
Shiro Muji

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Japan

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I also look at my Sparkplug to see whether my engine is running lean or not. by the way guys I fly this morning and get the temp of the head of my engine and it reads 140C. the engine is running well. is it okey? Right now I am located in a tropical country which is really hot.

Maxum with Hanson 3D Max, Maxum Nitro, Maxum 30.5cc modified engine, RH Generator, Sceadu .50Hyper

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03-09-2008 11:17 AM  10 years agoPost 44
erichevy

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Zevenhoven The Netherlands

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Shiro,
I use an Alkalyd fuel called Aspen which is distributed by Husqvarna.
It contains no Benzeen, that's why it doesn't smell like regular gas.
Because of this fuel I can't read the plug anymore. The fuel is too clean/pure so it leaves no deposites on the plug.
My way of telling you're running right on your mixture is by seeing/hearing the engine burp.
This burping (four-stroking) is an indication of runing rich.
I tune my heli's such a way that, when it's not completely warmed up, it will burp.
And when thorrowly warmed, the burping is just gone, then you're in the right needle setting.
But this only tells you about your L needle.
For checking the H needle there are other techniques.
That's how I do it.
To be honest I only temped the engine when I started flying with gasser heli's, to be sure (then) I was right with the mixture.
The Aspen fuel I use, uses a perfect quality full sythetic oil which is important too, to get a good livetime out of your engine.

Eric.

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03-09-2008 03:44 PM  10 years agoPost 45
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Sure, resort to calling me names. This usually happens when you can’t disprove what I am saying. So go ahead and tell everyone new to gassers that the definitive answer to needle settings and engine temperatures is the chocolate brown plug. I am sure the newbies are listening to you because you are the experts but when they have trouble deciphering what their plug should look like or why their plug doesn’t look like yours you can finally admit that there are many many variables that affect the color of the plug. I am here to tell them up front, not keep it a secrete, until after they fried their first engine.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-09-2008 04:18 PM  10 years agoPost 46
xcellgasman101

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WOODWARD, OKLA....

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Sure, resort to calling me names.
If the shoe fits,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
This usually happens when you can’t disprove what I am saying.
And just what is your stand?? Knowbody knows?? but you..
Do you ever look at your plug??
So go ahead and tell everyone new to gassers that the definitive answer to needle settings and engine temperatures is the chocolate brown plug. I am sure the newbies are listening to you because you are the experts but when they have trouble deciphering what their plug should look like or why their plug doesn’t look like yours you can finally admit that there are many many variables that affect the color of the plug.
All I can do is pass on the info that was given to me by (BillMe), and it has worked for many years now Ace, without ever burning up a engine, IT WORKS,, Plain and simple,, You try to clutter up the thinking process of everyone, with dangerous info,, like tie down you heli and set your needles,,WHY, because you wont listen to anyone else,, You think you know everything,, When in reality, you really don't know crap, about a Gas Helicopter... I learned to fly a heli, with a GAS heli, Now how's is it that I could learn to fly a GAS Heli from the get go,, I LISTEN.... with a open mind,, not closed mind'ed like you.. It's your way or the highway..

If someone wants to learn how to read a plug, and learn the easy way to read a plug, then just PM me, or Put a post here on RR, and I'm sure that with the EXPERTS on here, They are going to do just fine,, I did it, and I'm not the Know it ALL that your are, I listen,,,

We don't have the luxuire of haveing a PC on board, to change all the setting, so WE have to LOOK to see what is happening,, And if your not checking your plug, then HOW DO YOU KNOW WHATS GOING ON WITH THE ENGINE

Yes there are lots of variables that affect the color of the plug. Thats why if someone ask me, I tell them to use Amsoil pre mix, 100:1 at 2oz. per gallon of 87oct. gas, that way we are on the same page,, It's not rocket science.. Just a little tinkering,

I wish you well in your indeviers AceDird, Your going to need all the luck you can get, or deep pockets, when you really start flying a heli,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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03-09-2008 06:48 PM  10 years agoPost 47
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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03-09-2008 09:38 PM  10 years agoPost 48
Chopper Man100

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Canton GA.

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awe shucks, no acebird reply on airdodgers post yet!

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03-09-2008 09:45 PM  10 years agoPost 49
erichevy

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Zevenhoven The Netherlands

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Not on John's or mine either...

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03-09-2008 09:48 PM  10 years agoPost 50
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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A lot of amateur tuners, some of whom are fairly successful, will look at some plug freshly removed from a two-stroke engine and offer advice based on the color of the oil deposited on the insulator nose. In fact, if the plug is hot enough there won't be any color, and if there is that still has nothing much to do with air/fuel mixture. If you think about it you'll realize that the only color you can get from an air/fuel mixture is the color of soot. When the mixture trapped in an engine's combustion chamber has more fuel than can be burned with the available air, then combustion will be incomplete and the excess fuel will remain as soot, which is not brown or tan or magenta or any color other than black. And if your engine's mixture is too rich, the sooty evidence will be present on the spark plug's insulator, in a very particular area.
Thanks Chris,

This is wonderful wealth of information.
Do you ever look at your plug??
Yep I do.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-09-2008 10:51 PM  10 years agoPost 51
j.8

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Denmark

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Acebird

How do you tune your engien ?

Bo

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03-09-2008 11:30 PM  10 years agoPost 52
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Zenoah manual

1. Start the engine without making any adjustments.
2. Make adjustments only when the engine shows signs
of inefficient operation.
3. Standard settings of each needle is as follows:
a. Low-Speed Needle: 1 1/8 plus/minus 1/4
b. High-Speed Needle: 1 3/8 plus/minus 1/4
Idle Screw: Turning this screw clockwise increases the
idling RPM. Turning it counterclockwise decreases the
idling RPM.
Low-Speed Needle: This is the fuel adjust screw (not
the air screw). Turning this needle clockwise makes the
gas mixture leaner, and turning it counterclockwise
makes it richer.

High-Speed Needle: Turning this needle clockwise
makes the gas mixture leaner, and turning it counter-clockwise
makes it richer. Set this needle at a position
which is 1/4 open from the maximum rpm position while
the aircraft is on the ground.
If it were a brand new engine I would not touch the needles to start. I don’t use the idle stop screw, it is removed. If it were an engine I bought used I would start with 1 3/8 on both needles. Get the engine to start and run at idle with a slight stumble. Set the high needle and then go back to the low needle. The low needle is adjusted for transition. The engine should go from idle to full tilt with no stumble and without cutting out. If it cuts out it is too lean. If it stumbles it is too rich.

This requires a way to put a load on the engine so you can set the high needle and run it for a minute or two. You do not have to go full throttle to set the high needle but it has to be high enough so the low needle is not part of the mix. Make all needle adjustments with the engine off. Tachometer is a must (no guessing by ear).

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-09-2008 11:39 PM  10 years agoPost 53
xcellgasman101

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WOODWARD, OKLA....

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Yep I do.
Why
In all your post you say it is useless,,,

How many people out there running their gas heil, has a plug that is just like it was when you put it in, after flying for a tank or so?????

I'll just about bet you,, There are NONE,,, There will be a change in color,,, if it's Rich, (dark),,,, If it's Lean,,, (white'ish or light in color),, Now if you continue to run with the plug staying WHITE'ISH,,, then your going to burn up your engine,,, But if you have a nice brown, to slightly darker brown, NOT BLACK, then your where you need to be on your needles,,, Really simple,,, On startup the engine should (stumble) not a very good word, but after just a couple of minutes of say hovering,, the engine should smooth out, to where you only get a tail kick, every 10, to 15 seconds, and only a slight tail kick, Not something that swings your heli halfway around, just a small blurpt, then another one in about 10 to 15 seconds.. Now for the High needle,, you must be able to FLY,, (that leaves you out AceDird) just make some 3/4 throttle FF for about 5 to 10 minutes, then you can either Auto, (again this leaves Ace out) the best way to check the plug, or land quickly let the engine idle for about 30 seconds before you kill the engine, Let it cool off, then READ YOUR PLUG,,, You could do some full throttle climbouts, but it will take alot of then to be able to read the plug,,,,It should be a brown, NOT BLACK which is rich, and NOT WHITE'ISH in color,, LEAN,, Always start RICH then move the needles in till you get the right color,,, (Brown),, Now this does take some time, but what the hell.... Your out there flying, so why not..

I'm going to go fly now, and have a good time,,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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03-10-2008 03:24 AM  10 years agoPost 54
DKTek

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Melbourne, FL-USA

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John, I bet you and ACE are best buds. You two are always a highlight of my RR experience. I wouldn't trade you two for nothing.

The beatings will continue until morale improves...

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03-10-2008 03:58 AM  10 years agoPost 55
xcellgasman101

rrElite Veteran

WOODWARD, OKLA....

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DK,, it always warms my heart to know that I put a smile on someones face,, Glad you enjoy'ed,, As for the Best of Buds,, NOT,, and never no way anyhow.. I sure hope he get to rr Master soon,, I need a break,,

Never give up, never surrender,,

I really like your tag line,,
The beatings will continue until morale improves...

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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03-10-2008 05:58 AM  10 years agoPost 56
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Well, it's certainly improved my morale reading all this

Paul.

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03-10-2008 10:54 AM  10 years agoPost 57
j.8

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Denmark

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A.C.E.B.I.R.D: All clowns entertain but I really don`t

Ah that`s not quite true, you are entertaining

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03-10-2008 05:33 PM  10 years agoPost 58
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Why
Well buddy, if you read the article you might find three or four reasons why but I suppose in your infinite wisdom you don’t need to learn anything new. You got the tiger by the tail.

For those with more open minds and always willing to absorb what information they can it is best to look at your plug when the engine is newish before problems crop up. Then if you regularly check your plug after several flights you will have a comparison between what it looked like then and now. Any change in the way the plug looks will give you a heads up that something has changed. I won’t say that brown is a bad color for the plug but with all the variations in oils, fuels, engines, and setups yours may not be brown. Just because yours isn’t brown doesn’t mean your needles are set wrong. There are other ways to prove that your needles are set right.

Your needles are not going to move from where you put them or where they were originally set. If you have been reading posts here on RR you will most certainly come across fuel mixture problems that are not needle related. Although the first reaction for some people is to adjust the needles, this could mask the problem until it gets real bad. Just remember the needles will not change on their own and once they are set properly they will remain good (assuming you fly at the same elevation) until you have to remove them because of a gunked up carb. My rule of thumb is if you have to move your needles more than 1/8 of a turn from where the engine was running good before, you have a fuel starvation problem or an air leak problem. Don’t fool yourself into thinking you can solve the problem with a twist of a needle. In other words, DO NOT READ YOUR PLUG AND TWIST YOUR NEEDLES because the likely hood is something else changed.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-11-2008 01:38 AM  10 years agoPost 59
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Yes, absolutely correct. If you cannot tune your engine or the engine goes off-tune for no apparent reason, look for a problem - don't keep adjusting the needles hoping it will go away.

Paul.

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