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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › What is the Operating Temperature for Zenoah Engines
03-04-2008 05:59 AM  10 years agoPost 1
Shiro Muji

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Japan

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Hi, What is the advisable operating temperature of Zenoah Engines. When will one consider it as overheat?

Maxum with Hanson 3D Max, Maxum Nitro, Maxum 30.5cc modified engine, RH Generator, Sceadu .50Hyper

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03-04-2008 08:28 AM  10 years agoPost 2
xcellgasman101

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WOODWARD, OKLA....

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190 to 220 degrees F.. Somewhere in that range,,, Most piston combustion engines are,,,,when it comes to temp XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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03-04-2008 11:44 AM  10 years agoPost 3
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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It will depend on how much clearance, cooling, oil, and many other factors. I ran 2 stroke engines at 350 F for an hour at 13000, rpm and never seized one. I had temperatures as high as 450f and still did not seize. I am not telling you to try these temperatures just pointing out temperature ranges. Exhaust gas temperature is a better measurement.

Chris

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03-04-2008 08:53 PM  10 years agoPost 4
jschenck

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La Vista, NE.

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190 to 220 degrees F.. Somewhere in that range,,, Most piston combustion engines are
Where are you taking these measurements at? Bottom of the 'head' area above the exhaust port?

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03-04-2008 09:58 PM  10 years agoPost 5
xcellgasman101

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WOODWARD, OKLA....

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Third fin from the base of the head,, Below the exhuast port,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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03-05-2008 12:16 AM  10 years agoPost 6
FCM

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Surrey, England

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When it sags it's running too hot!

Paul.

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03-05-2008 12:42 AM  10 years agoPost 7
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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And when the motor seizes......
You definitely know it was a little on the warm side.....

Seriously, I think that one of the best ways to determine if your needles are set correctly is by learning how to read the spark plug....

There's been a few threads on that topic recently....

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03-05-2008 12:50 AM  10 years agoPost 8
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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My engine seized just last weekend and by the way the plug look and the tail was twitching I am sure it was rich. Go figure...

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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03-05-2008 01:20 AM  10 years agoPost 9
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Was it a 260 size engine and was it being broken in - sorry to hear it locked up on you

Now I remember - this engine had a baaaad looking plug on this thread http://www.runryder.com/t409404p1/[/quote]

It seems it was as bad as it can get

Paul.

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03-05-2008 01:59 AM  10 years agoPost 10
DKTek

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Melbourne, FL-USA

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I'm getting around 200-210 F on the TRM29. I'm using a duel temp set up. One is for on board readings which is one fin up from the exhaust and the other is the same but over the carb side. I'm still waiting on the EGT.

The beatings will continue until morale improves...

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03-05-2008 04:40 AM  10 years agoPost 11
jschenck

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La Vista, NE.

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has anyone toy'd with the idea of putting an oxygen sensor in the exhaust system? be an accurate way of measuring mixture in flight.

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03-05-2008 04:54 PM  10 years agoPost 12
TooBizzy

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Georgetown, Ohio USA

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I agree that the best way for determining temps is from the EGT. I used to fly an Ultralight that was powered by a 377 Rotax. It had a CHT and an EGT gage. The CHT sensor was located between the plug and the head, sort of like a washer. The EGT sensor was located in the header a few inches from the cylinders. My EGT ran from 1000-1200 deg. At that time, the manufacturer said 1400 deg was meltdown. I tried to stay away from that! If memory serves me, the CHT ran about 275-300 deg. 400-450 deg and you would be seizing. I remember flying at dusk and looking back at the header....The header and half the muffler would be cherry red! Sort of scarey but never had a failure!

These engines would be no different.

I haven't seen an EGT or CHT gage for these engines. Anybody have a link? That would definately help you dial one of these engines in....

P-Gasser Se, Raptor 50 Se Hyper, Raptor 30v2, Trex450se, 3dx450...

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03-05-2008 05:11 PM  10 years agoPost 13
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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It would be great to have an EGT gage to set mixture. The only problem is that you want to run 50 degrees rich of peak when you are running it at rpm. I guess you would have to have some sort of in-flight mixture control and a gage you could easily read.
I used to worry about temperatures, but found that when I quit worrying and just went on sound, power, and plug, that the engine and I were much happier. These engines can take SEVERAL gallons of fuel through them to get fully broken in. Also running 40:1 or 50:1 oil mixes takes good tuning ability.....which requires patience.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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03-05-2008 05:33 PM  10 years agoPost 14
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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When it sags it's running too hot!
You betcha! Some of the simplest things are very difficult to learn for some reason.

Paul, when the engine is in the heli how do you tell the RPM sag when setting the high needle? Head loaders?? On board tach?? Or fly at full collective for a thousand feet and guess at it from the sound of the engine.
You definitely know it was a little on the warm side.....
You betcha! However if one needle is rich and one is lean reading the plug ain’t for sh$t. You can have the engine spitting fuel on the low needle and smoking hot on the high needle and depending on how long you were flying in each zone will dictate what the plug and the temperature looks like. The tail will kick just fine but an extended run at full throttle will result in a damaged engine. Now the other side of the coin is your needles were set right and an air leak or fuel starvation occurred which usually shows up on a high speed run as a “sag”. And then “When it sags it's running too hot!”. If you don’t heed this warning your goose will be cooked.
My engine seized just last weekend and by the way the plug look and the tail was twitching I am sure it was rich. Go figure...
Just remember Jack what my troll told you after reading your plug in a previous post.

http://www.runryder.com/t409404p1/
Check you plug,, It will tell you everthing you need to know..

Looks to be a tad on the rich side, but not bad
And this is what he told me in the same topic later on:
You have now made me one of your Trolls,, I'll be keepin a eye on what you tell other people to do,
And so will I… especially when the end result is a fried engine.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-05-2008 05:36 PM  10 years agoPost 15
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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Was it a 260 size engine and was it being broken in - sorry to hear it locked up on you

Now I remember - this engine had a baaaad looking plug on this thread ........

It seems it was as bad as it can get
Yes, it was a 260 Hanson modified, with aprox 5 gallons through...

Why do you say the plug looked bad? There were absolutely no metal particles on the plug. Those were only light reflections on the picture.

The colour was a darkish brown, tending for rich...

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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03-05-2008 05:43 PM  10 years agoPost 16
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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Ace,

everybody at the field agreed the engine sounded rich. Tail kicking on hover and 1 3/8 on the high needle, no bogging whatsoever during climbouts. I have no idea what happened.

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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03-05-2008 08:33 PM  10 years agoPost 17
haggy38

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Bogotá - Colombia

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Hi, I had the same temp symptom, I decided striped the carburetor an found a lot of dirt in the small metal filter, clean it up and works flawless. Try it!

Regards,
Gustavo

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03-05-2008 09:16 PM  10 years agoPost 18
DKTek

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Melbourne, FL-USA

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I haven't seen an EGT or CHT gage for these engines. Anybody have a link? That would definately help you dial one of these engines in....
Mine is from Eagle Tree. They have a lot of cool sensors. http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Accessories/2.htm

The beatings will continue until morale improves...

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03-05-2008 09:29 PM  10 years agoPost 19
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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no bogging whatsoever during climbouts. I have no idea what happened.
To be perfectly honest with you Jack, I don’t know what happened either but in the other post you spoke of elevated temperatures and the engine cutting out.
So I tried again with 1 3/8 on both needles and ended up leaning the low end just a bit. This allowed me to at least go for a short FF circuit. The tail was still kicking somewhat. Temperatures as measured on the on board monitor were pretty high. Is that to be expected?

Also, I couldn't go inverted. The engine would immediately cut.
It is not 100%, but most of the time an engine cuts out when it is deprived of fuel. Initially you had a low setting of 1 ¾ which most engines won’t even start that rich so my only thought is you had a massive air leak or a fuel clog present.

I put the plug reading and the climb out test in the same category. You get some information but not the whole story and that is only after you yourself have learned what to look for, not what someone else tells you to look for, especially when they are instructing you from a distance based on a photo.

Needles clog, the screen has been known to clog and filters clog are all problems associated with used or not used recently engines. Add to that the possibility of air leaks from fuel fittings, bearing seals, and the carb insulator block to name a few, things can go bad rather quickly.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-05-2008 10:40 PM  10 years agoPost 20
Chopper Man100

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Canton GA.

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The most certain way to read your plug from the engine running at the high end is run it there and kill the engine and autorotate in, then pull the plug. You can't do a high speed FF or climb out and then fly her back in to land it running the engine because that can screw up your plug readings.

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