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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Flybaless Electronic.
03-04-2008 06:19 PM  10 years agoPost 21
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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Vbar...
don’t know if v-stab gives you a cyclic electronic ring or corrects for CCPM geometry errors? Or exploits full resolution of the RC link and drives servos at digital speed frame rate
yes, yes and yes...Mikado vbar does all that and works in the same way as the CSM it sounds...all the mixing is done in the unit..meaning that the radio is set to 1 servo 90 degree setting.

to argue would be pointless...my only experience lies in the Mikado vbar and you'rs lies in the CSM...sounds like we are both happy with our setups...I just like to stick with whatI know...so I'll be using these vbars until something ground breaking overtakes them...

Anthony

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03-04-2008 10:12 PM  10 years agoPost 22
PTCA

rrNovice

Chico, CA

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CSM 720's are not $250. They can be had for $189.99 at Amainhobbies which is where I got mine. 2 gyros and a cyclock would be less than $500. Still less than a Vbar if you buy 3 720's and a cyclock. A mechanical setup such as a Raptor doesn't even need a Cyclock.

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product...oducts_id/17389

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03-04-2008 10:46 PM  10 years agoPost 23
jyzoom

rrApprentice

Singapore

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csm flybarless video
hayabusa and all,

You have any video that show csm flybarless ?

Jonathan

Goblin 700, Furion 450, Synergy E6

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03-05-2008 01:08 AM  10 years agoPost 24
hayabusa

rrApprentice

uk

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Try runryder videos...........Info on fly-bar-less 50 below and 14 MZ
Hi jyzoom I don’t own a digital video camera so I cant help you on this one but its worth looking at 3d masters video 2007 it might be in Runryder collection Curtis Youngblood was fly-bar-less and so was Duncan Osborne (CSM) and Vladimir golubev (CSM) out of interest I will look as well.

The fly-bar-less can be as sedate as you want it or you can set it up to be insane the insane set up is quite pleasantly thrilling. I use five flight conditions condition (1) normal flight (2) idle up 1 (3) idle up 2 these use 100 ATV elevator 115 ATV aileron this softens the cyclic response (4) idle up 3 with maximum ATV aileron and elevator (5) idle up 4 pitch pump with maximum ATV aileron and elevator using Futaba 14 MZ acceleration software on pitch where caution is necessary when setting rate, active and dumping program, the above settings also compensate for weather conditions so I can flick into a flight condition and still fly in extreme wind when (whoops swear word! fly bar models) are possibly grounded, in idle up 4 my model is fringing mental it rolls at mind blowing speed and the Revlock 30 makes it ten times better because its got collective management so I maintain rotor speed what ever the situation. I have just given you all some good tips which took me hrs to achieve if you want ballistic, my 50 blows my favorite 90 none fly-bar-less model away. 1 cyclock, 2 720 gyro’s a rev lock 30 a carb smart is all you need to make your 50 go on steroids. Hayabusa

( if anyone doesn’t agree stick your head in the bog for ten minutes )

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03-05-2008 01:52 AM  10 years agoPost 25
jyzoom

rrApprentice

Singapore

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thanks
hayabusa

I know the feeling of flybarless having previous own a VSTABI on Logo 500/600. I sold it as I didn't like the way the tail hold, but the cyclic advantage is there and I want that back.

I love the spartan 760 fyro on my tail...so is in the market to get an flybarless back. Just trying to get a sense if the CSM setup is as difficult as the VSTABI. VSTABI suffer from the challenge of getting the different parameters explain clearly on what it does and how to tune it.

I hope CSM have a better instructions to help set ip up.

But I am with you on abaility to be on the fly " flip of a switch" and make changes to the heli to cope with different flying condition.

hmm.....I guess I should give it a try on CSM flybarless...and take advantage of the cyclock.

I have Jazz controller and running govn on Logo electric, do I really still need a revlock?

Jonathan

Goblin 700, Furion 450, Synergy E6

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03-05-2008 03:08 PM  10 years agoPost 26
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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Vbar
know the feeling of flybarless having previous own a VSTABI on Logo 500/600. I sold it as I didn't like the way the tail hold,
Obviously you had something set up wrong with your vbar then...the performance of the vbar tail is better than the 601/611 ...

There are alot of parameters to choose from with Vbar but there are also alot of setup files you can download...these setup files cam help you get your heli tuned in a matter of minutes...also..There are 4 banks you can choose from with the vbar...so at any time you have 4 DIFFERENT settings available at your fingertips..

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03-05-2008 05:07 PM  10 years agoPost 27
hayabusa

rrApprentice

uk

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Hi jyzoom you don’t need the Revlock 30 but at a later stage you could take advantage of this unit, the cyclock is a marvelous piece of electronic wizardry which transforms the way your helicopter works the speed and precision of the cyclock on your 3ccpm Mikado will most definitely assist your flying skills use CSM web site for cyclock and 720 gyros set up and just take your time with it you wont look back this fly-bar-less system is the dogs bollocks when you get going I will share my set ups with you if you want to try them you will be buzzing after first flight with CSM set up. hayabusa

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03-05-2008 09:37 PM  10 years agoPost 28
jyzoom

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Dont think so.
Jag72

As you say until something ground breaking....sure you know what is not as good on VSTABI.

I know cause I used one for months before. SAnd I am sure when you follow all those posts on VBAR, you will know people uses another gyro to get the tail hold better. Hi I did that too, using spartan 760 on top of VSTABI. I love that performance, but decide to sell the VSTABI and wiat for the "ground breaking" one.

Jonathan

Goblin 700, Furion 450, Synergy E6

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03-05-2008 09:49 PM  10 years agoPost 29
JohnR

rrNovice

Dallas

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The Vstabi combined a Futaba BLS251 is as good as the best stand alone gyros available...

John

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03-05-2008 09:57 PM  10 years agoPost 30
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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JYZOOM
I am sure when you follow all those posts on VBAR, you will know people uses another gyro to get the tail hold better
I have never heard of anyone EVER needing to use a tail gyro with the vbar?

The Vbar works as good as if not better than any gyro out there ...including the CSM 720...Never used a spartan so I can't comment...

Can you point me to some posts that talk about people requiring the use of a tail gyro with Vbar? I would be interested in seeing what issues they are having...I just have never heard of anyone complain about this?

All those KILLER vids you se with Vbar equipped helis and I have NEVER seen anyone using a tail gyro?

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03-05-2008 09:59 PM  10 years agoPost 31
jyzoom

rrApprentice

Singapore

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might be
John,

"The Vstabi combined a Futaba BLS251 is as good as the best stand alone gyros available..."

That is what I have and I do agreed if setup correctly it could be one of the best. I just have problem setting it up, part of the issue with VSTABI I would say is difficult to setup.

And once I move the BLS251 on spartan 760, I couldn;t believe how well an HELI tail holding could perform. My experience with gyro are GY240, GY401, Logitech 2100, Logictech 6100, VSTABI and now spartan 760.

I am sure there are lots of happy VSTABI customer out there, I am still happy with VSTABI on the flrbarless perfroamnce...just not sure on the tail.

John

Goblin 700, Furion 450, Synergy E6

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03-05-2008 10:10 PM  10 years agoPost 32
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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Tail...
so now you're saying it holds well then?

I'm still curious to see those posts where people are claiming the vbar needs an extra Gyro to work well?

I have 3 flying vbar machines right now...2 of them have 9251/9256's and one has the BLS251

Honestly I see no performance difference between them...if you were using a crappy tail servo before this could be why you were having issues...I have heard that if you do not use a 9251/9256 the tail will not hold quite as well...but I don't know for 100% as I have never tried a different servo..

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03-05-2008 10:14 PM  10 years agoPost 33
jyzoom

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Jag72
Jag72,

do a search yourself....if you want see for yourself anf get a spartan 760 on the tail with the VBAR on cyclic.

anyway, VSTABI is good...I just didn;'t like the feel of the tail. It is my choice just like it is yours.

I am happy you like your VSTABI....nothing wrong with me not liking it either.

Jonathan

Goblin 700, Furion 450, Synergy E6

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03-05-2008 10:18 PM  10 years agoPost 34
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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Search...
do a search yourself
I just did

Came up with NOTHING...that's why I am asking you?

I'm not saying you have to like it ,...personally I don't care if you like it...that's you're choice...but you said that alot of people were needing gyros as well as the vbar...I just wanted to see those posts that's all

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03-05-2008 10:51 PM  10 years agoPost 35
ulrich

rrNovice

Hanau, Hessen - Deutschland

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Dont battle about this, as jyzoom already states, its a matter of feel. If you try to imitate a specific feel, you will upset others, that are used to another feel.

The most important change in feel is the expo setting. The newer the gyros are, the more expo they have built in. The next important is the absolute maximum rate. With these two parameters, you can imitate the feel of virtually every tail gyro out there with VBar.

To get maximum flexibility, i decided to not built in expo into the gyro , so that you have the freedom to decide how much you like by setting it in the tx (30-50% is normal). Very similar is the maximum rate, which is set in software, but can be limited easily by reducing travel output on tail.

Its quite interesting, how people decide what they like and what not. Its not easy to find a common sense. Some do short tail movements in hover, other do hard pitch pumps, and again others do fast sideways flying or tonados to decide how it feels. All these mannouvers show different aspects of the feel.

I know its hard, but if you try to compare things, try to find out where the real differenc is. Often its only a small issue, that can be solved by tweaking a parameter, but you only can give an advice, if you know what exactly is the problem *and* if the question is asked

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03-06-2008 12:41 AM  10 years agoPost 36
jyzoom

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Spot on
Ulrich,

Spot on. Unfortunately I don't have the funds to have multiple systems at the same time. ( or I prefer not to ).

VSTABI is a great product, and for now I have the as my basic expectation of what flybarless can do. I will make my round on all the upcoming flybalress systems and they have to live up to VSTABI and more...If not I will be back to VSTABI.

Jonathan

Goblin 700, Furion 450, Synergy E6

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03-06-2008 12:44 AM  10 years agoPost 37
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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My only question with the Vbar is : Can it handle the vibration levels of a gasser heli?
Gas heli's are known to vibrate a fair deal more than a Nitro, and some gyro's dont like the vibration level.
So does anyone know?

For the love of the hobby

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03-06-2008 01:02 AM  10 years agoPost 38
jyzoom

rrApprentice

Singapore

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nitro - yes
on nitro-> yes.

http://www.runryder.com/t412666p1/

Jonathan

Goblin 700, Furion 450, Synergy E6

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03-06-2008 01:48 AM  10 years agoPost 39
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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not Nitro...Gas as in two stroke with a spark plug

For the love of the hobby

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03-06-2008 07:28 PM  10 years agoPost 40
hayabusa

rrApprentice

uk

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The best flybarless system is ?
Tony-toung asked which the best fly-bar-less system is—until any one of us fly a CSM or a V-STAB or what ever is on the market side by side the answer is all of them and if we did it would only be in our opinion stop bloody arguing and help each other for f %*!k sake I was going to put my set ups on here because I do ring the bollocks out of my fly-bar-less but its like hand bags at dawn I wish I hadn’t bothered posting on here it’s the same on the turbine section I am done here and gone night flying a really pissed off .hayabusa

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