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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Flybaless Electronic.
03-03-2008 04:58 PM  10 years agoPost 1
trexflyer2003

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northridge ca,91324

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What is the best Flybaless electronic available on the market now?

What do you use?

I am new to flybaless system.
Please share some of your infomation

Thanks

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03-03-2008 05:22 PM  10 years agoPost 2
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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The BEST?
I don't know what the "Best" one is ...because I have only tried the Mikado Vbar system...but from my own experience and from what you read here...it looks like the Miakdo Vbar is probably the best..

I currently have 3 flying Vbar machines and a 4th on the bench in the process of becoming flyable...I love the vbar setup myself

here's my 3 vbar setups...

2 logo 600 3d's
and a Roxxter 55

the 3dmpe is in the process

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03-03-2008 07:09 PM  10 years agoPost 3
trexflyer2003

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northridge ca,91324

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Jag72,

Thanks for your post. Your Helis look so nice. You have all the best Helis on the world.

If you would not mind, I have more questions.

How hard is it to set up Mikado Vbar system?

Look like you have L600 but you probally know about L500.

What servo do I use for cyclic and tail for Logo 500? We dont need seperate gyro right?

would Align Trex 600 XL motor and ESC work ok on Logo 500?

I am looking in to Logo 500 and/or Logo 400 which will come out by April.

Thanks

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03-03-2008 07:18 PM  10 years agoPost 4
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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Tony...
Here's what I would recommend...

Cyclic servos...use 9451's or 9452's..great servo and you can get a set used here for cheap money..

as for a motor and esc...

The Stock Align 75A esc is perfect for the logo 500..as for a motor I would recommend a Century 600 plus ..they are GREAT motors for the money and the power on 6s is AWESOME!

I just built a logo 10 a couple weeks ago...which is the same thing as the logo 500 really...here's my setup:

9451's on cyclis
Century 600 plus
6s 3700mah evo pack
Align 6A bec
550 blades
gy 401/9254
Align 75A esc

this heli Kicks AS$...if you go with Vbar you do NOT need a tail gyro...as for a tail servo ...the best servo for the vbar setup is a 9251/9256/or BLS251...

one of my logo 600's has a BLS 251 and my other vbar machines have 9251's and 9256's...they all seem to work as well as each other.

here's a pic of my latest logo 10 setup...for your reference..

Hope this helps..

Anthony

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03-03-2008 07:21 PM  10 years agoPost 5
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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BTW...
Setting up the VBAR is SUPER easy...

it only takes a few minutes really...

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03-03-2008 07:50 PM  10 years agoPost 6
rotoryrob

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Auburn WA

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Is that a flybar I see on that logo 10?

Rotoryrob

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03-03-2008 08:00 PM  10 years agoPost 7
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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Rob...
Is that a flybar I see on that logo 10?
Don't tell anyone man Don't want anyone knowing I'm still flying flybarred machines...lol..

I already have the Vbar head for this logo 10 ....I'm just waiting for the Vbar Electronics to get in stock now and I'll have that one converted as well

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03-03-2008 10:17 PM  10 years agoPost 8
trexflyer2003

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northridge ca,91324

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BTW...

Setting up the VBAR is SUPER easy...

it only takes a few minutes really...
------------------------------------------------------
Jag72,

That is so cool to know Setting up the VBAR is SUPER easy.

I'll print out this infomation and keep in a safe place for my LOGO project.

I bought 611+9256 and planned to put on flybar LOGO 500.

I was very close to buy a flybar Logo 500 kit from a local guy last sartuday. It was a good deal. Brandnew logo 500 kit + CF thunder tiger main blade for 350$. Then I changed my mind, would like to go for flybaless. I dont want to buy that and then upgrade it.

Suddenly, I fall in love with the look of Flybaless Heli. It looks so attractive to me now.

I guess my Trex500 will get 611+5256 and
I will have to buy Mikado Vbar Heli and electronic. I need to save 700$ for the Vbar Electronic. I would not want another heli with flybar at all.

Thankyou very much for your infomation.

Tony

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03-03-2008 10:27 PM  10 years agoPost 9
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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Tony
I would not want another heli with flybar at all.
That's exactly my sentiments as well my friend

one thing you have to remember about vbar..no gyro is needed so when you actually factor that in...you're really only paying an extra $500 for the flybarless setup...

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03-03-2008 11:39 PM  10 years agoPost 10
hayabusa

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uk

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CSM fly-bar-less system ...fitted on T-rex 600n and Turbine 4ccpm Predator/Wren
Hi Tony-tuong I have been flying CSM fly-bar-less system for a year, using 3 ccpm you need a cyclock 1 and two CSM720 gyros the cost of this is much less than v-stab and is easy to set up there is info on there web site http://www.rcmodels.org/csm/ you get servos working at digital speed and an electronic cyclic ring, and corrects for ccpm geometry errors full resolution from transmitter and eliminates RC latency errors I use maximum atv’s on my 14 MZ I fly 3d the stability of this system is just outstanding and has been thrashed for a year now, my model is a t-rex 600n using a rev lock 30 with collective management and a carb smart the CSM electronic control systems have changed my model to ballistic the electronics are ultra reliable my turbine helicopter also has a CSM fly-bar-less system with two cyclock's on 4ccpm and fly’s beautifully .hayabusa

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03-03-2008 11:43 PM  10 years agoPost 11
trexflyer2003

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northridge ca,91324

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Jag72,
Beside the handsom looking, more flytime, Is there any other advantage over the flybar system?

Does it cost less money to buy parts after crash?

I am wondering How the Mikado Vbar electronic will hold up with crash?

I suppose German made stuff will be better than Jap, chine or taiw stuff.

Thanks

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03-03-2008 11:48 PM  10 years agoPost 12
trexflyer2003

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northridge ca,91324

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Hi hayabusa,

Thanks for your post.

How much exactly is it for CSM fly-bar-less system?

Is it made in Japan?

Thanks

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03-04-2008 12:16 AM  10 years agoPost 13
hayabusa

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uk

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Hi tony- tuong the cyclock 1 RRP £ 49.99 the 720 gyros RRP £ 124.95 they are made in the UK but if you shop around you can get them cheaper some shops do a deal for the 3 items. CSM have a great back up service and repairs are fantastic usually between £5.00 to £30.00 you can e-mail them or phone them for help or advice just check there web site out http://www.rcmodels.org/csm I use CSM electronics on all my models the repairs are fast and low cost and I personally think they are the best on the market. The v-stab in the UK cost £549.99 and I have no idea what a repair bill would be on a v-stab but CSM repair would be very hard to beat with my past experience.hayabusa

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03-04-2008 12:31 PM  10 years agoPost 14
Eyefly

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Charlotte, NC

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I have a CSM system for sale if you are interested. It is in pristine shape. Send me a PM if interested.

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03-04-2008 02:12 PM  10 years agoPost 15
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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CSM
I have heard from quite a few people and have read quite a few posts here about the performance of the CSM system...

From what I have heard and read is that the CSM doesn't really handle the piro moves Nearly as well as the Mikado Vbar setup though...

and as for this..
using 3 ccpm you need a cyclock 1 and two CSM720 gyros the cost of this is much less than v-stab
I don't think is is really a true statement...If you really look at the costs..

with Cyclock(CSM) you need 3 gyros..if you use 3 CSM720's at $250 each you're at 750$...now add a 100$ for the cyclock and you're at $850 ...Mikado's Vbar is only 700$ and you also have the task of mounting 3 seperate gyros on the machine instead of 1 sensor like the mikado vbar... from what I have heard there is no "REAL" interface program to set up the CSM either...unlike the Mikado Vbar setup..

But hey...it's up to you man...don't take my word...dig through the flybarless forum threads here and determine it for yourself

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03-04-2008 02:34 PM  10 years agoPost 16
Eyefly

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Charlotte, NC

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This is where it gets very subjective. The piro-moves are better with the V-bar system however the cost is truly less with the CSM system. The system with the programmer/cyclock and 2 720 gyros can be found for $500. Most of us already have a gyro. If not, you dont need a third 720. You can use a futaba 401 or whatever you want. The biggest advantage in my mind is durability. In a hard crash, I would rather replace a gyro or two than a whole $700 system. Figure what is best for you.

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03-04-2008 02:52 PM  10 years agoPost 17
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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Okay...
So what if you sell you're existing gyro and get a vbar? If you have a 601 then you sell the unit and keep the servo...so you're new investment is only about 500$
then you're still cheaper than the CSM? I'm not understanding the logic there?

besides that...the vbar with a 9251 gives you tail perfomance as well as if not better than a 601...the CSM setup with a 401 would only give you 401 performance...

Since when is it better to have 4 electronic pieces on your heli rather than 1???

I would rather have to worry about 1 point of failure rather than 4 potential points of failure...but hey...that's just me...
The biggest advantage in my mind is durability. In a hard crash,
So you're saying that 3 gyros and the CSM cyclock are more durable than the Single Mikado Sensor and unit?

I'm not sure where you found this out?

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03-04-2008 02:59 PM  10 years agoPost 18
Eyefly

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Charlotte, NC

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Not to start an argument here. My point that if one unit is damaged, you have to replace that one expensive unit. It is less likely to damage four or five units at different locations. In a bad crash, I would rather replace one gyro and or one cyclock unit than the whole V-bar system. This is why I stated it is very subjective.

Furthermore, the Vbar system is is the same amount of electronic devices in one unit. With the CSM system, you have the same components, they are simply in separate modules. I have no information as to the durability of any of these systems as I have not owned the V-bar nor crashed either.

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03-04-2008 04:24 PM  10 years agoPost 19
trexflyer2003

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northridge ca,91324

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To all,
These are very valuable INFO for me to decide. I will take my time more to do more research and not rush to get something that I wont like later on. I like product that is simple to set up because if I sit there weekend after weekend to setup my heli, i will run in to trouble with my wife and my daughter.

Once again, thankyou very much.

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03-04-2008 06:14 PM  10 years agoPost 20
hayabusa

rrApprentice

uk

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CSM fly-bar-less is fantastic!
Hi eyefly thanks for your input I completely agree with what you are saying and the benefits of the individuality of components I have used CSM for many years and if you break there product it is repaired at low cost because CSM are passionate about keeping you in the air without emptying your pockets of your hard earned cash. Which fly-bar-less system is best I can only say what I have used and I don’t know if v-stab gives you a cyclic electronic ring or corrects for CCPM geometry errors? Or exploits full resolution of the RC link and drives servos at digital speed frame rate I know the CSM system works fantastic using a cyclock and two CSM720 gyro’s and I set my £1649.00 14MZ to mechanical setting and let the cyclock sort the 3ccpm out at the receiver end that’s how good it is. I don’t know Jag 72 how good the v-stab is at pirouetting moves I have not tried one but I know there is not a problem with the CSM fly-bar-less system doing these maneuvers at all and I have my ATV’S on aileron elevator and pitch set at maximum and I am using + - 15 degree’s of pitch range and the model is very responsive and behaves impeccably in headlock or in normal fly-bar-less mode. To discuss in-depth either fly-bar-less system and set ups would only confuse some one new to the system and CSM do have a web site with bullet proof settings for you to venture into a fly-bar-less system successfully and for the expert pilot the parameters are endless .hayabusa

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