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HomeAircraftHelicopterComputer Flight SimulatorsRealFlight › Phoenix affect on Realflight sales
03-03-2008 09:38 PM  10 years agoPost 21
bilbo

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Boston, MA - USA

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When I was shopping for a Sim i asked my LHS which was the best and what was the hype about Phoenix? The response I got was G4 is the best and Phoenix users have had nothing but problems.
What's the surprise? If you ask the same question here you'll get the same answers....
Where?? From what I've seen, the feedback on all the RC forums from Phoenix users has been overwhelmingly positive. Where have you seen Phoenix users saying they have nothing but problems?

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03-03-2008 09:46 PM  10 years agoPost 22
Vertiviper

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NY- USA

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Where?? From what I've seen, the feedback on all the RC forums from Phoenix users has been overwhelmingly positive. Where have you seen Phoenix users saying they have nothing but problems?
You may have missed my point. That was the whole point! The fact was that the LHS owner wanted to make a sale..not help out a customer with good advice. Just one of many events that usually occur when I step foot inside.

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03-03-2008 10:26 PM  10 years agoPost 23
bilbo

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Boston, MA - USA

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Vertviper, I was responding to Ace Dude's post, not yours. Though maybe I misunderstood his point, in which case I apologize. But I thought he was claiming that most people on here would say the same thing as the LHS owner -- that RealFlight is the best sim and Phoenix users have nothing but problems.

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03-04-2008 01:00 AM  10 years agoPost 24
Wa11banger

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Huntsville, Al

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The sim is not a game. How real can it be if you're not using your own TX? Besides, there's no way you can perfectly match the stick tension between a fake and real TX
G3's version of a tx is a lot more real than G4's having a dial on top.

As for perfectly matching, um no you cannot match it perfectly even if you used your transmitter. I am sorry but having test flown all of them. The physics in each are no where near realistic. So your right Ace with your thought process it is just a game for you, it matters not to me, please by all means wear out your tx. I do not know how much time you spend flying or in the air but gimbal replacements aren't free. For me, having the switches at least in the proper order and somewhere relative to realistic configuration is important. If it's not for you well hot damn good on ya.

At best in a 2D world on that monitor without any real aspect ratio the sim is a great representation of orientation training and good for muscle memory only, not a realism effects trainer. When you are flying enough to go through a few gimbal replacments let me know.

Rick

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, & KBDD team

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03-04-2008 01:46 AM  10 years agoPost 25
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Where?? From what I've seen, the feedback on all the RC forums from Phoenix users has been overwhelmingly positive. Where have you seen Phoenix users saying they have nothing but problems?
Did you try doing a search?

I own both, but all I'm saying is different folks will have different opinions. Some will think sim X is the best, some sim Y, and some sim Z. The bottom line is everyone needs to determine what sim is best for them and sometimes it's impossible to determine that until you spend a fair amount of time with each sim. Different strokes for different folks. Some like this feature and some can't live without that feature.

It's no surprise that any retail business recommends the product they have in stock. Business is business and every retail business is in business to make a profit.

Over the years I've owned CSM v9, CSM v10, RFG2, RFG3/3.5, RFG4, Reflex, Reflex XTR, AeroFly Pro, AeroFly Pro Deluxe, and Phoenix. That's quite a few.

I've sold them all except for RFG3/3.5, G4, and Phoenix. I just got G4 and haven't even had a chance to install it yet. It's sitting here in the box. I've kept an old JR radio around just for sim use. I use it for Phoenix, but use the controller that RF when using RF.

  

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03-04-2008 01:59 AM  10 years agoPost 26
Ace Dude

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USA

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So your right Ace with your thought process it is just a game for you, it matters not to me, please by all means wear out your tx. I do not know how much time you spend flying or in the air but gimbal replacements aren't free. For me, having the switches at least in the proper order and somewhere relative to realistic configuration is important. If it's not for you well hot damn good on ya.

At best in a 2D world on that monitor without any real aspect ratio the sim is a great representation of orientation training and good for muscle memory only, not a realism effects trainer. When you are flying enough to go through a few gimbal replacments let me know.
That's actually kind of funny. You want it as real as possible, but not so real that you have to pay for gimbal replacements. So how many gimbal replacements have you actually had? Have you considered buying gimbals in bulk and replacing them yourself? If you're going through a set of gimbals a week then perhaps there are other issues here....

  

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03-04-2008 02:44 AM  10 years agoPost 27
bilbo

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Boston, MA - USA

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Did you try doing a search?

I own both, but all I'm saying is different folks will have different opinions.
I've been following these forums for over a year now so I don't really need to do a search to know that most posts from Phoenix users have been positive. In any case, if you didn't actually mean to say that most Phoenix users have nothing but problems then I just misunderstood your point, and I apologize.

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03-04-2008 03:08 AM  10 years agoPost 28
Ace Dude

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USA

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I've been following these forums for over a year now so I don't really need to do a search to know that most posts from Phoenix users have been positive.
Any good researcher always verifiers their assumptions.
In any case, if you didn't actually mean to say that most Phoenix users have nothing but problems then I just misunderstood your point, and I apologize.
Nope, I certainly didn't mean most and I believe very few have actually had any problems with Phoenix (I did do a search). My point is simply that no product is perfect and you'll always find folks who like/hate or have a problem with a particular product.

I always wonder how many people who say their sim is the best have owned more than one sim....

I don't think you can go wrong with either Phoenix or RF. Phoenix does seem require less horsepower to work well.

  

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03-04-2008 11:26 AM  10 years agoPost 29
bagobitz

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saddleworth,lancs,UK

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Some observations:-

Mike said that he couldn't sell Phoenix.....but , there wasn't an effective Demo. in-store whereas RF was well set-up.

I wonder if the lower retail had anything to do with it?

Sell an article for $100 @ 30% ...you made $33

sell a "better" article for $200,at the same margin,you made $66

I'm sure that with better promotion, Phoenix would have sold a lot better...as I said before, you can't discount ALL the buzz it's generated, just on this forum alone.

Realflight ,I still think, has key advantages(controller, rendered or photofields)...It's a bit expensive, but so is Reflex.

Put Reflex and Phoenix together, you're comparing apples and phoenix has a real edge.

the sim market has been kicked into a healthy state of competition by the introduction of Phoenix....would we have got night-flying and water-scenes so quickly if Phoenix hadn't innovated there?

Regarding the RF Gimbals,the feel seems little different to my JR tranny...other than the weight and a slight size-issue I don't think it's a "quality" issue more the difference in feel between ,say, Toyota and Mazda.

I'm happy with G3.5....As I'm sure Great Planes/knifeedge have realised, a couple of gimmicks is NOT going to "do the business"
so, for me, and i suspect,a significant majority, G4 will stay on the shelf.

Reflex has never featured on my wish-list,due to it's limitations (customer support, bullying legal letters to owners who "might" have been using an aftermarket spurious dongle, patchy support.....though I think the free downloads are a real plus)

Now, if only Phoenix would develop Rendered fields 40 sq. miles, that didn't cripple a computer that wasn't "bleeding-edge"...I might have to copper-up and buy it!

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03-04-2008 01:33 PM  10 years agoPost 30
Wa11banger

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Huntsville, Al

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If you're going through a set of gimbals a week then perhaps there are other issues here....
You obviously cant read. They are replaced about once a year. If I used it on the sim, would probably be twice a year. I personally dont like have my tx gone that once a year but have to. Im sorry if you have enough free time to be without yours. Also replace your gimbals all you want I prefer mine calibrated by the experts. I also dont feel like doing it myself. So the G3.5 tx is a real as it gets, obviously you prefer dials

Rick

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, & KBDD team

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03-04-2008 01:56 PM  10 years agoPost 31
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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If you're spending that much time on the sim or can't afford to be w/o a TX for a week or two a year then perhaps there are some more serious underlying problems going on here....

  

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03-04-2008 03:51 PM  10 years agoPost 32
MJWS

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Airdrie, AB - Canada

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Buzz on here DOES NOT EQUAL buzz in the real world.

To be blunt we could sell FMS as the ultimate sim to a majority of customers. It really isn't margin or net profit that drives sales. It is support and simplicity. People have success with G4, it works out of the box, we don't have to worry that they won't get adequate customer support. Most shops don't have time to worry about a single low volume product. Easy wins every time.

It's like most things. People will justify their purchase to themselves. If they buy Phoenix... they think it's the best, G4 same thing. Sims aren't cheap so few buy more than one.

The model for new pilots and training has also shifted. When crashes are $200 a pop and it is very difficult to get parts... a sim is very important. When you've had a cx, a cp, and a blade 400 where many crashes are under $10. Lots would rather fly and learn the hard way then spend more than they paid for their heli on a 'computer game'.

Mike

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03-04-2008 03:59 PM  10 years agoPost 33
Wa11banger

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Huntsville, Al

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If you're spending that much time on the sim or can't afford to be w/o a TX for a week or two a year then perhaps there are some more serious underlying problems going on here....
See once again you have lost scope, I spend roughly an hour a day on the sim, maybe even sporadic timing a little more a little less.

As for not being able to afford to be w/o my transmitter that is my choice. I fly at least every weekend weather permitting and during the summer months you can find me at the field after work. I also do many other things in those same days, I can multitask and enjoy many things at once.

So there is an underlying problem with me not wishing to put undue wear and tear on my tx? I think once again you are lost. Your logic makes no sense. By all means please wear out your gimbals on your simulator, it is my choice not to. That is why I bought a simulator with a tx.

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, & KBDD team

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03-04-2008 04:08 PM  10 years agoPost 34
The_Widowmaker

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Bear Valley Springs, CA

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Now, if only Phoenix would develop Rendered fields 40 sq. miles, that didn't cripple a computer that wasn't "bleeding-edge"...I might have to copper-up and buy it!
Of course it can be done but first it does not need to be 40 square miles. Maybe multiple fields totally 40 sq. miles. Phoenix and RealFlight have very little 3D rendering in comparison to most popular computer games and these games run fine on computers that are less than cutting edge. With optimized code there is plenty of room for more 3D rendering without the need for the latest and greatest.

In regards to wearing out your TX. The included TX in G3 to me is not a plus. I want to feel of a real transmitter in my hand. Instead of wearing out my 9303 I will purchase a less expensive, used transmitter.

"I'm a Virgin.. I'm just not very good at it. "

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03-05-2008 12:13 AM  10 years agoPost 35
bagobitz

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saddleworth,lancs,UK

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WIDOWMAKER you've hit the nail on the head!

Instead of a controversial new controller and a few visual gimmicks, IMHO, Realflight's efforts would have been much better directed at reducing the demands of the program.

Don't get me wrong, my PC has one of the last AGP Mo Bo's,with an N Vidia 7600 GT Video card (Toms Hardware best buy ) the comp. is about 3 years old and runs G3.5 reasonably well with all the visual toys "on"...there's no way I'll upgrade just to run G4
Which is what i'd have to do.
As far as the controller is concerned, yes, the case is very cheap n' cheerful, but it DOES replicate a budget radio extremely well and the switches are certainly good, durable kit. I was quite surprised to find the sticks were adjustable for length,with proper alloy ends and lock-rings. I think it's perfectly OK and, of course, the leads and adaptors were supplied so I can choose to use my JR tx instead.
I've always been able to readily change cars, motorcycles,sailing dinghys etc. with minimal familiarisation, different TX "feel" is just another insignificant detail.
I personally like to occasionally select "chase" or "cockpit" view and fly a plank around the scenery.....yes, I know it isn't strictly "simming" but it makes a pleasant break....you don't have that option in photofields....you're restricted to standing "inside" the circle of scenery.

If I were looking for a new sim, I'd most definitely consider Phoenix....because of demonstrated innovation, customer support, ongoing free upgrades/development, apparently superior physics and value for money.

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03-09-2008 07:57 PM  10 years agoPost 36
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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I got around to installing my G4. The location of the hold switch is a pain. Certainly not a big enough deal for me to rethink my purchase decision. With a little work it may be possible to move the two switches around or just use a real TX.

  

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HomeAircraftHelicopterComputer Flight SimulatorsRealFlight › Phoenix affect on Realflight sales
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