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HomeOff Topics › Firearms. Looking for Hand gun
03-03-2008 04:50 PM  10 years agoPost 61
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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Makes me wonder if I should do this or not.
hehehe.... I took the CCW class with my brother a couple months ago. The class seemed to be mostly about all the reasons why you don't really want to carry, and there are many... He got his card, but doesn't carry cause its a pain to be lugging a chunck of mostly useless metal with you all the time. Glad i took the class, but I haven't sent my paperwork in for the same reason. A couple others i know have the card and don't carry, but still like the fact that no problems arise if a cop decides the gun isn't being transported properly...

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03-03-2008 05:32 PM  10 years agoPost 62
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Makes me wonder if I should do this or not. LOL. Or atleast stay away from Gimbal when he's pi$$ed off.
It's difficult to gauge someone based only on words typed on a web forum, but folks who know me would attest that I'm nearly always mild-mannered. I'm not looking to harm anyone -- live and let live I say, and I mean it.

But the older I get the less tolerance I have for BS in any form. F with me or my friends or family in ANY way that could be construed as threatening harm or even property damage and I'll respond quickly and calmly with whatever degree of force I feel will bring about a just conclusion.

I've been most fortunate to have a friend of 20+ years here who's a respected detective on the local police force, and he's been kind enough over the years to keep me clued into what I can and can't do to bring about 'good' results.
But I wouldn't mind going a few rounds with you Gimbal. I mean shooting a few rounds with you.
Me too. There's several good indoor ranges here and a bunch of suitable spots in the desert to burn some powder and have a few laughs.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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03-03-2008 05:35 PM  10 years agoPost 63
Boidman (RIP)

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The Home Stretch

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Folks who know me personally would attest that I'm nearly always mild-mannered.
Oh, dear, the ironing.

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03-03-2008 05:37 PM  10 years agoPost 64
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Folks who know me personally would attest that I'm nearly always mild-mannered.
Oh, dear, the ironing.
Did I not say 'nearly' always?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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03-03-2008 05:42 PM  10 years agoPost 65
Boidman (RIP)

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"Nearly" is a term of which some could be said to have no real concept of. (ESAD, grammarians)

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03-03-2008 05:47 PM  10 years agoPost 66
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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"Nearly" is a term of which some could be said to have no real concept of. (ESAD, grammarians)
And yet it's a term which perfectly conveys the facts. Wassamadda -- get up on the wrong side of the tail boom again this morning?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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03-03-2008 05:48 PM  10 years agoPost 67
rmschmidt

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Tooele, Utah

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Got to disagree with that
Gimble with this one you are wrong! I also have a Highpoint 9MM and so do several of my friends. This gun with out question is a good gun! I have fired over 2,000 rounds & 500 of them were reloads and never has jammed or any issues. My friends have had the same! I first picked it up over 8 yrs ago for $70 bucks on sale just for a camping gun. I will admit that it is not a
gun for display, but I have taken it on atv trips, carried on person and
it does not have so much as a scratch! Plus it has a life time warranty! So for a cheap gun, it is worth the money! If you want to spend some cash go for a Glock, ruger or Walther. I also love my Ruger P90 stainless, but I would not take it on a ATV ride!

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03-03-2008 05:51 PM  10 years agoPost 68
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Gimble with this one you are wrong!
Are you talking about the Llama Especial 380? I didn't know it when I posted that, but I did some looking around for info on it and apparently the earlier models had a reputation for shoddy manufacturing, unlike the later versions.

The one I owned I bought used back in the mid '80's. I still have its serial # -- if anyone has a way of checking vintage I'd sure like to know when it was made.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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03-03-2008 05:52 PM  10 years agoPost 69
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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Unless your wife is going to train, get a revolver like the Lady Smith .357 I have one...It makes a great carry piece.

They don't have the shaved hammer anymore and thats a shame. So maybe something like this

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...=-1&isFirearm=Y

DA only, no hammer to get caught on things, can use .38 to train...ect

If you are going to do some training, the Glock is very hard to beat for a carry piece. The "trigger" safety is great for a defense gun. Most people will not train enough to be able to handle an external safety when all hell breaks loose. I used to have a G27 and it looks like I am going to get another one.

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03-03-2008 05:56 PM  10 years agoPost 70
Boidman (RIP)

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"Nearly" is a term of which some could be said to have no real concept of. (ESAD, grammarians)
And yet it's a term which perfectly conveys the facts. Wassamadda -- get up on the wrong side of the tail boom again this morning?
I strongly suspect that the indelible memory of this post will forever taint a high percentage of everything delivered by the OP, past, present, and future. He knows or suspects what I know.

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03-03-2008 05:58 PM  10 years agoPost 71
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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"Nearly" is a term of which some could be said to have no real concept of. (ESAD, grammarians)
And yet it's a term which perfectly conveys the facts. Wassamadda -- get up on the wrong side of the tail boom again this morning?
I strongly suspect that the indelible memory of this post will forever taint a high percentage of everything delivered by the OP, past, present, and future. He knows or suspects what I know.
Be specific Stevie, or we'll forever wonder if it was the wrong side of the vineyard you woke up on today rather than your tail boom. Got whine?

PS -- The title of this thread is 'Firearms. Looking for Hand Gun.' Hijack further if you really must, but the polite thing to do would be to start your own thread in which to deal with any odd personal issues you may be straining over this morning.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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03-03-2008 06:10 PM  10 years agoPost 72
Boidman (RIP)

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The Home Stretch

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Be specific Stevie, or we'll forever wonder if it was the wrong side of the vineyard you woke up on today rather than your tail boom. Got whine?
We both know the list of your fabrications. Stroke your e-pecker to beat the band, the facts won't change.

Be clever now, edit repeatedly, rattle your 'salami' in its e-scabbard. You and I know the 'truth.'

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03-03-2008 06:14 PM  10 years agoPost 73
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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We both know the list of your fabrications... You and I know the 'truth.'
And what fabrications might these be??

I call BS -- you can't show us a single 'fabrication' because there aren't any. I take pride in being brutally honest with everyone. Can you say the same?

I encourage you to be as specific as your wine-tainted brain will let you -- but do it on your OWN thread, out of respect to the original poster of THIS thread.

And try not to drink so heavily so early in the morning -- it's bad for your health, it turns your eyes red and it makes you look foolish on web forums.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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03-03-2008 06:22 PM  10 years agoPost 74
Boidman (RIP)

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You're such a cute and silly little boy. Maybe eventually you'll find someone to love you.

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03-03-2008 06:26 PM  10 years agoPost 75
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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You're such a cute and silly little boy. Maybe eventually you'll find someone to love you.
That's the sort of thing a drunken cross-dresser might say. Are you coming out of the closet? Put DOWN your wine bottle and step AWAY from the little boys -- your 'slip' is showing and it clashes with your dress.

I'll say it again -- start your own thread and LIST these supposed fabrications.

Do it BEFORE you start into your first bottle of the morning though -- or you'll end up looking even more foolish and odd than you already do.

Got whine?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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03-03-2008 11:22 PM  10 years agoPost 76
hockeysew

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Co-USA

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I work part-time in a buddies shop selling firearms and can pass some advice to those wanting a handgun:

When it comes to a handgun the most important things are:
1- What fits your hand the best? If the handgun does not feel "right" in your hand then you will never be happy with it nor be able to utilize it properly in a time of need.
2- Stopping power. Stopping power all boils down to this simple equation: How quickly will the round transfer it's kinetic energy into the target?
Typically a smaller diameter, high speed round(.380,9MM etc.) will not dump that energy as quickly that a larger, slower moving round (.45ACP)will.
A higher speed projectile will penetrate better but it may just pass through the target and not transfer much energy to the target. Therefore if you plan on possibly having to shoot through cover a small high speed round may be better.
Say what you want about the Plus P ammo and the like but you cannot beat the physics involved.
All a "Hollow Point" does is ensure quicker expansion of the round. It does help but is no guarantee.
3- Intended use. Do you plan on carrying concealed or just having a plinker? Size comes into play then.

Understand a couple of things about self defense:
1- Any body within 21 feet or better known as the "7 steps of death" is a threat. What this means is that a threat is a DEADLY threat within those seven steps. A person can close that distance in 1.5 seconds. A knife,bat or any other weapon within that distance is just as deadly as a gun.
2-Within those 7 steps you want STOPPING power. A crackhead with 6 rounds of .380 in him is still a threat. A crackhead with a .45 slug in him is a broken crackhead.(Seen it first hand)
3- If you are then looking for a carry/defense pistol how critical is long range capability? The majority of self defense shootings occur at 3 feet or less.
4- The average Joe in a critical situation is not going to be able to concentrate on shot placement.

As far as the folks that think that those that carry are just looking for a reason to draw the weapon please read the following and let it sink in:

I carry a weapon (CCW) daily. Does that make me a bad person?
I look at my weapon as I do a seat belt:
You pray to God that you never have to actually employ it's use. But the one time that you do you will be thankfull you did.

Food for thought:
Ten things non-gun people should know about CHP/CCW holders:

1. We don't carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does.
We don't walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don't get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don't hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first.

2. We don't think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren't hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don't take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness.
We don't believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety.
Except for extraordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided.

3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or "rage" incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting
someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don't pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want.

4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other security measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.

5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well-made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to
discharge on its own.

6. We do not believe in the concept of "accidental discharges". There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned
how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun "going off" was the result of negligence on somebody's part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America.

7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also
realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good
judgment and clear thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that it's very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private
security. Please don't generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like "there's a guy running around in the store with a gun" or even simply "I saw a man with a gun in the store" could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the
incident.

8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place
and at any time. Criminals do not observe "gun free zones". If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we
think a location is.

9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is
appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases.

10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don't believe that every person should necessarily be
armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please
oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe "gun free zones". Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be
unarmed victims.

I will trust in 911 to get there in time to remove the body from my home in a "Sh!T Hit The Fan" situation.
I have THE RIGHT to protect myself and family with deadly force if warranted.

Sorry if it is a little long winded, but I guarantee the first time you are in a life threatining situation you will have a different outlook on things.

With that being said- It is awful hard to compete with a 1911.
I would trust my or my families life to a .45ACP any day.

Liberals are like a "Slinky", useless but entertaining when pushed down stairs....

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03-03-2008 11:50 PM  10 years agoPost 77
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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hockeysew
Very well said....I would add:
Understand a couple of things about self defense:
1- Any body within 21 feet or better known as the "7 steps of death" is a threat. What this means is that a threat is a DEADLY threat within those seven steps. A person can close that distance in 1.5 seconds. A knife,bat or any other weapon within that distance is just as deadly as a gun.
2-Within those 7 steps you want STOPPING power. A crackhead with 6 rounds of .380 in him is still a threat. A crackhead with a .45 slug in him is a broken crackhead.(Seen it first hand)
3- If you are then looking for a carry/defense pistol how critical is long range capability? The majority of self defense shootings occur at 3 feet or less.
4- The average Joe in a critical situation is not going to be able to concentrate on shot placement.
5. Keep the weapon simple. The average person with little training is not going to be able to operate well in a high stress situation. This is why I like revolvers as carry pieces. If you just *have* to have a semi, then a Glock is a good choice. But realize that the more complex a weapon you choose it WILL require more training .

6. If you are going to carry...You are going to have to do some amount of training...to include staying current or you having a weapon may actually make the situation worse.

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03-04-2008 12:41 AM  10 years agoPost 78
Havoc

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Ky.

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The stopping power/caliber debates go on endlessly throughout the internet. But when you must factor in size and weight for a conceal carry handgun, then the number of rounds you have should factor in as well. You should not expect to drop an attacker with one shot. That's for the movies. Doesn't matter what caliber. In that kind of life or death situation your motor skills degrade. You want a caliber that you can shoot well for the size and weight of the gun. Shot placement wins over caliber and you may feel more 9mm rounds is better than having fewer .45 rounds. Train to expect to need to deliver more than one shot of any caliber. A hollow point of a given caliber is generally considered the best round. Not because it is more lethal but because it does add to the stopping power (which is not the same as lethality) and since the attacker absorbs much more of the bullets kinetic energy it is less likely to exit the attackers body and hurt an innocent bystander or ricochet like a ball round.

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03-04-2008 02:13 AM  10 years agoPost 79
whirlyspud

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USA

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I know people that have carried for years, and never had to use or even let it be known that they were armed. I worked a grave yard shift at a service station years ago. My trusty 10mm 1911 was always on hand. Now, my 1911 sits in my brothers gun safe in another state because where I live you can not "legally" even have it in your home. I'm interested to see how the challange to that going on in DC turns out. I hope in the long run it helps change the laws here.

I was put in a situation about 15 years ago where after the fact, I am glad I did not have a gun. There was a massive power outage in the Chicago area one summer. It made the news all over because 400 some odd people died due to the heat. Anyway, I decided to sleep out on my deck because it was so damn hot inside the house. About 3am I woke up to see a leg swinging over the side of my deck. In a flash I jumped up grabbed the person and started pounding them in the face. It took about 4 or 5 punches before I registered that the person I was pounding on was calling out my name. It turned out that my dumb ass neighbor that lived behind me locked himself out of the house and decided rather than to wake his roommates that he would climb up on my deck in order to get to his own. He is damn lucky I registered that he was calling my name. I was getting ready to throw his ass over the side of the deck. He ended up with a bloodied face when he could have easily been dead or crippled.

You know what the bastard did. He went into his apartment and called the police. So a half hour later I am sleeping again when they came and started shining lights on me and woke me up again. I told the police what had happened. The guy that called them told them his side. The cops on the sceen told my neighbor he was lucky to be alive and left it at that. I did not even get a ride to the station. that being said, I am glad I did not have my gun. Most likely I would have shot his dumb ass.

Mike

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03-04-2008 11:24 PM  10 years agoPost 80
jdmoore64

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Somewhere in VA

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Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. Everything was extremely helpful

John

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