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HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignOther › Is it me or has Align really overtaken the Raptors as having the better helis?
03-04-2008 02:29 PM  10 years agoPost 61
moyesboy

rrNovice

uk

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I have a raaptor 50 v2 and an align 600npro.
The 600 is a much nicer built heli.
The raptor is a pain to work on, and looks liek a cheap plastic lump in comparison.
At the moment though I prefer the way the raptor flies. It has a few upgrades, but is still running the std head with ali head block - its not a special raptor in any way.
I just bought a quick UK swash for the 600n, becuase, quite frankly, it needs it before it stands a chance of flying as straight as the raptor.
Don't get me wrong, the 600n flies precisely, responding to the slightest control input - it just flies precisely corkscrew shaped loops flips and rolls (go on call my ccpm setup all you want, I know its not the cause ).

in the UK the TT miniT is actaully quite popular and it flies really well for a mainly plastic heli.
So TT brought out a new motor and a new 450 size heli last year. That isn't as much new product as align but its hardly standing still - you can't argue that the old TT motor wasn't a weak point in a raptor. For the sake of maintaining competiton I hope the new raptor50 rumour is true as it certainly makes business sense. Maybe they may a super light 3D machine and everyone complains its fragile in crashes - or threy make a more robust one and they complain it has less pop than the 600n. Maybe with a redline53 in it they can achieve a robust and 3d capable design (compared to a 600n/hyper).

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03-05-2008 08:29 AM  10 years agoPost 62
"Cam"

rrKey Veteran

UK

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Efrog
Shogun was my first heli!

Raptor 60 was my 2nd heli.

I have since flown all the TRexes for work, and Hurricanes, Eolos, some scale stuff and someones Calibur 90 bootique heli.

There's just too much slop in the TRex 600 head for it to be enjoyable to fly, for me. If you're really good you might over look it.

For me just the layout, the fits of the parts and TT snap links do it for me. Make one from Quick UK parts and you have a dream heli.

Suprised thay havn't made a range of parts for the TRex 600.

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03-05-2008 09:08 AM  10 years agoPost 63
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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TRex's fail and explode, have bad vibes and are not as stable as raptors. Cheap screw that come loose unless you glue them in.
Raptors have tails that fail, the fans are weak....Really ANY helicopter is going to have issues.

I have no loyalty to any brand. They are not giving them to me, so why would I defend them to the death? I fly what I think flys best for me....If a new product comes out and I think it will be better and it is made by someone else...I'll try it.

Right now Align pretty much owns the 50 market. Maybe it is because it flies the best, maybe it is because it costs less, maybe it is because it is the new kid. Most likely it is a combination off all of the above.

Jason designed the thing...It does fly really well. It costs less than a Raptor 399.99 to 429.99. It costs less to fix than a Raptor since parts come in twos. And I know for a fact that hobby shops make more off of Align kits and parts than TT. So if you owned a hobby shop and one kit brought you in twice what the other kit did....Which are you going to carry more? At my LHS we move 10 Trex's for every one Raptor.

Maybe the RJX, or the Knight is better...But I have never seen one in person and I have no local parts support. As for Trex's my LHS has a wall full of parts, and I have a key and the Alarm code so I can get parts in the middle of the night.

Does any of this mean that TT kits suck? Do they suddenly turn to dust and fly like crap? No and no. They are not as up to date and lets be honest was ANYONE happy about the Titan as a new model? TT and Hirobo are both rumored to be working on a new design...I am sure that as long as they are more than sticker kits they will be in the running.

A Shogun was my first heli....A trex 450XL kicked its butt. Then the 450XL got smoked by the 450SEV2.

My first glow heli was a Venture 50. It was replaced by a much better EVO 50. The EVO was replaced by the Trex 600N. The Trex sits most of the time while I fly my Vibe...The Vibe might get replaced by the N9 or the N700 when it comes out.

I replaced my 2001 Mustang GT with a 2006 Mustang GT. It is the very nature to replace things with newer improved things...As for Helis, well TT and Hirobo have not done anything new in a while.

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03-05-2008 12:38 PM  10 years agoPost 64
"Cam"

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UK

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Yeah I like the 450 SEV2

Watch at YouTube

Need to get better dampers for that one though. Gone back to the V1 head until I get some.

Ron that post made sense. an RR 1st.

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03-05-2008 04:29 PM  10 years agoPost 65
Escrima1

rrNovice

CA

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Ron Hill
Jason designed the thing...It does fly really well. It costs less than a Raptor 399.99 to 429.99. It costs less to fix than a Raptor since parts come in twos. And I know for a fact that hobby shops make more off of Align kits and parts than TT. So if you owned a hobby shop and one kit brought you in twice what the other kit did....Which are you going to carry more? At my LHS we move 10 Trex's for every one Raptor.
From what you are saying then is that Align could be getting more popular simply because it is cheaper to fly and easier to get parts. Partly because the dealers get a larger profit from stocking Align parts, which there 2 of in many cases. If I were on a budget then that would sway my spending for sure.

I'm new, where is the reset button on this radio?

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03-05-2008 04:32 PM  10 years agoPost 66
Escrima1

rrNovice

CA

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But, the Align heli still has to fly better to be more popular on the field. You could probably give these away at the field but if they don't fly better than the raptor then guys wouldn't keep them.

Right-I'll take free any day.

I'm new, where is the reset button on this radio?

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03-05-2008 04:41 PM  10 years agoPost 67
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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From what you are saying then is that Align could be getting more popular simply because it is cheaper to fly and easier to get parts. Partly because the dealers get a larger profit from stocking Align parts, which there 2 of in many cases. If I were on a budget then that would sway my spending for sure.
The dealers i have talked to said they make less profit on the align parts and kits. The biggest reason most raptors flyers were buying raptors was because they said parts were cheaper than everyone else,i wasnt so much they flew better than the competiton.Probably the biggest reason people bought Raptors was because there is a ton of Bling Bling for them.

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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03-05-2008 06:25 PM  10 years agoPost 68
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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MR10X
The dealers i have talked to said they make less profit on the align parts and kits.
I can't speak to what you have been told. I can say that I have seen the invoices for both with my own two eyes and the Trex was less expensive for the hobby shop. I am not going to give numbers, but the wholesale to retail difference is greater for the Trex as well.

Escrima1
From what you are saying then is that Align could be getting more popular simply because it is cheaper to fly and easier to get parts. But, the Align heli still has to fly better to be more popular on the field. You could probably give these away at the field but if they don't fly better than the raptor then guys wouldn't keep them.
Maybe not guys that LOVE Raptors, but think about the guys that don't really care about any one brand. If two helis fly about the same and one costs less...I'll be flying the less expensive one. And even if you think another brand of heli flies better, you must admit that the Align products are in the race.

More importantly, think about the new guy that has no clue and just wants a heli. The new guy walks into the store and we ask him if he wants electric or glow. No matter what he answers, Align has a product that arguably is in the race for the best.

He wants an Electric 450...Well, the SEV2 is one of the most popular on the planet for that size. He wants a 600E...Again, the 600E is one of the most popular. He wants a glow, well it is pretty clear that the 600N is really popular.

Then he asks, "I have heard about Raptors/Evo's/ect, are they any good?" I say that they are good and picking a machine is a personal choice, like picking a Ford or a Chevy. But I point out the difference in cost between the them and the difference in parts costs and they normally walk out with a Trex.

He feels good in that he got a new toy and that he made the wise financial choice since parts are less expensive. I feel good because the Align stuff does fly great and does cost less to fix. The LHS owner feels great since he made a higher profit WHILE the guy paid less overall. <----That is Win/Win.

In many sports/hobby's what the local seller sells is what is the most popular. Normally they have parts, and they know the product. Can anyone name a heli hobby shop that sells TT or Hirobo but does not carry Align? Selling Align products is good for business, so many shops carry Align. I can travel from TX to FL and find plenty of Align parts, but TT or JR parts can be hard to find.

So Align is so popular:
1. The kits cost less for the pilot to buy, and parts cost less.
2. The LHS makes more on Align products so they are going to support them and carry parts.

Those two lead to #3
3. The more product out there, the more popular they seem and the more people are going to want them. We have a top pilot in our area, he started flying an N9. Sure enough, others are now flying the N9.

I am not even going to list that they fly great and are a good value for the money. Even if you think they are not the best I think most will agree that they fly well. Heck I think most major brands fly well.

Not even going to list the "new heli smell" factor. Some people have the perception that newer is always better. While not always true it normally is the case. So the newer heli is going to have the buzz....Case in point the Vibe 50 and the Aurora.

Align not only makes a good flying product, but they have a great marketing plan, have a size and type heli for almost everyone, are normally the least expensive option, and make it worthwhile for the LHS to sell their product.

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03-05-2008 07:26 PM  10 years agoPost 69
Shredder777

rrApprentice

Riverside, CA - USA

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Nice flying CamUK..

Align Trex 600 Nitro Pro, T-rex 450 SE GF

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03-05-2008 07:34 PM  10 years agoPost 70
LUCKYSTARZZZ

rrApprentice

tacoma wa

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trex 600 parts are bout half the price of raptor parts

2 trex booms and rod+guides in a pack for the same price as one raptor boom.

so 600 stuff is bout half price for the usuall parts for a raptor

my 600n is awesome with the extra pitch and cheap parts

6 crashes some pretty hard no broken frames
4 skids brokin

135 flights

just plane fun

i owned 7 raptors in the past good but not better than the 600

blades are always exspensive and thats were the major repair cost
start

the ground always wins! ..my heli can beat up your heli

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03-05-2008 08:16 PM  10 years agoPost 71
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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I can't speak to what you have been told. I can say that I have seen the invoices for both with my own two eyes and the Trex was less expensive for the hobby shop. I am not going to give numbers, but the wholesale to retail difference is greater for the Trex as well.
How do you figure that when you get 2 booms for $10 with Align and only 1 with Raptor. That equals 1/2 the profit for the Align booms. boom.With the Align you wont see the customer for 2 crashes $10 and for the Raptor customer you will see him twice for $20.

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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03-06-2008 12:53 AM  10 years agoPost 72
RonHill

rrVeteran

FLL, FL

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How do you figure that when you get 2 booms for $10 with Align and only 1 with Raptor. That equals 1/2 the profit for the Align booms. boom.With the Align you wont see the customer for 2 crashes $10 and for the Raptor customer you will see him twice for $20.
Because, for example, if you make 30% off of one product but only 10% off the other there is a big difference. You have to look at *profit* per transaction, not total money exchanged per transaction.

2 Trex booms for 10 bucks X 30% profit = 3.00
2 Raptor booms for 20 bucks X 10% profit = 2.00

I'd rather sell the Trex booms than the Raptor booms in the above example.

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03-06-2008 03:52 AM  10 years agoPost 73
arceye

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UK

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The trex kit is cheaper than the raptor?? Not exactly the raptor comes with a muffler and blades, Ok they are a std muffler and wood blades that very few will ever use but none the less they are included so if the price of them is added to the trex it becomes more expensive.
Also lets not forget that the trex needs every bearing in the kit to be thrown away and replaced with some quality bearings as the kit bearings are complete junk, so that can be added to the price of the kit
Saying the parts are cheaper on the trex isn't fair either, if you fly both models for a year without crashing the trex will cost more in maintenance as the parts quality is crap and they wear very quickly.
In the event of a crash don't forget the frames will almost always break on the trex where the raptor generally hold up better so crash costs are around even even if you do get 2 in a pack of trex crap.

If a complete novice walks into a hobby shop and they are sold a trex its because the shop wants to make more profit no other reason.
If you highlight the differences between them, NONE of them bare any relevance to a novice because the pilot needs to be advanced enough to understand what they are and what they mean, except the price of the kit, which don't forget the novice needs to buy a muffler and blades which make it more expensive, oh.. and the crash cost which is so little difference it doesn't matter. But I forgot something, the trex is a pain in the a$$ to work on and it requires good quality expensive servo's to have a chance of flying well where the raptor doesn't.

Don't forget I am talking about a novice here so the a metal head block is not a requirement for the raptor.

After all that, as with almost everyone else I agree the trex does fly way more precise than the raptor, which it should considering it is over 10 years younger by design.

In the real world the trex is the current fad so is pushed more by the hobby shops which is why it seems to sell more, for those that want a quality carbon framed 50 when you next total the raptor in a crash go buy a Zero G frame set then you will have both good quality carbon and ccpm in your raptor. Yeah I know it is a lot of money but to coin a phrase that is so often said on here "you get what you pay for" and nobody seems to complain about the extortionate price of the avant conversion for the freya


Kasama Head :(
The Blingiest DOWNGRADE a Raptor can have

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03-06-2008 04:08 AM  10 years agoPost 74
David Blain

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Mt. Dora, Florida (USA)

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well written arceye-- I liked the reference to 10yrs newer! Never mind the hard pushin'n by the LHS and advertisers..
The easiest way to promote a product is to cut down on the competition and say why "yours" is better! Enough said...
It's my opinion only... I'll fly the Raptor.

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03-06-2008 05:05 AM  10 years agoPost 75
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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Also lets not forget that the trex needs every bearing in the kit to be thrown away and replaced with some quality bearings as the kit bearings are complete junk, so that can be added to the price of the kit
I didn't have to replace mine till a crash...And I had to do that with Bocca's as well when they were crashed.
Saying the parts are cheaper on the trex isn't fair either, if you fly both models for a year without crashing the trex will cost more in maintenance as the parts quality is crap and they wear very quickly.
Again opinion. I had the first in my area and the parts that have been replaced have been due to sudden impact trama, not wear.
In the event of a crash don't forget the frames will almost always break on the trex where the raptor generally hold up better so crash costs are around even even if you do get 2 in a pack of trex crap.
I have crashed several times and still have not broken a frame. Others on here have not broken frames. In fact, in my area only one guy has broken the frames and het hit so hard he broke the *muffler*. So your claim of "Almost Always" does not stand true.
If a complete novice walks into a hobby shop and they are sold a trex its because the shop wants to make more profit no other reason.
Being that I work PT at a LHS and I sell Trex's over Raptors but don't get a cut of the action....You think you know why I sell Trex's over Raptors better than me? I sell them since they are better and cost less IMO.
oh.. and the crash cost which is so little difference it doesn't matter.
It is enough of a difference that the people don't buy Raptors anymore.

Crash costs:
Trex boom 6.00 (11.99 for 2)
Sceadu Boom 10.35
Raptor Boom 10.99

Trex struts 5.99
Sceadu Strut 14.99
Raptor Gear set 15.49

Trex spindle: 3.50 (6.99 for 2)
Sceadu spindle: 5.31
Raptor spindle 5.59

Trex main shaft 6.00 (11.99 for 2)
Sceadu Main Shaft 9.81
Raptor Main Shaft 8.99

Trex 21.49
Raptor 41.06

Those are significant differences, almost twice as much.
But I forgot something, the trex is a pain in the a$$ to work on
Opinion. Mine is I find the Trex very easy to work on. Heck there is nothing to them.
After all that, as with almost everyone else I agree the trex does fly way more precise than the raptor, which it should considering it is over 10 years younger by design.
So if you think it flies better...Then why are you bashing it so much? I own one, do you? I had one of the first in my area and I flew it today. It is fast, inexpensive, and puts up with getting smacked around at least as well as my Evo did.

There are all kinds of negative rumors about the Trex...You have listed most of them. But like most rumors they don't have much substance. Take the "weak frames" for example. I have crashed several times, seen several more, and heard about lots more and only one guy broke a frame. But once it is written on the internet it takes a life of its own.

The parts do wear out fast if you beat on it and run a high HS. I run about 2 grand and I know people that are running 2200. I don't know many people who run 2k+ on a Raptor.

I am not bashing the Raptor, it does not fly any better or worse than it did a year ago....You yourself said, "I agree the trex does fly way more precise than the raptor, which it should considering it is over 10 years younger by design."

All I am saying is:
1. The Trex is the new Raptor. When the Raptor came out 10 years ago it took the market. Back then people talked bad about it, now they talk bad about the Trex.

Reminds me of an old cartoon. A young politician is running for office and his slogan is "Change" while th eold guy he is running against slogan is "Experience". 10 years later the young guy is running for reelection and his slogan is "Experience".

2. The thing flies great.

3. The rumors of how bad it crashes and how often it breaks seem to come more from people that love Raptors than own Trex's.

4. Hobby shops make more on kits and parts and thats why they all seem to carry them.

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03-06-2008 12:18 PM  10 years agoPost 76
arceye

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UK

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So if you think it flies better...Then why are you bashing it so much? I own one, do you? I had one of the first in my area and I flew it today. It is fast, inexpensive, and puts up with getting smacked around at least as well as my Evo did.
No I don't own 1 and won't unless the quality is improved to be even close to acceptable and the canopy is changed (but the canopy is a personal choice thing), 3 of us at our club were thinking about buying them when it came out. 1 of the 3 did the other guy and myself soon decided we were glad we never and the 1 that did soon got rid of it.
Again opinion. I had the first in my area and the parts that have been replaced have been due to sudden impact trama, not wear.
then I suggest you are replacing the parts that wear quickly because you are crashing so much.
I have crashed several times and still have not broken a frame. Others on here have not broken frames. In fact, in my area only one guy has broken the frames and het hit so hard he broke the *muffler*. So your claim of "Almost Always" does not stand true.
After watching the same trex crash twice none of which were heavy in any way and under throttle hold so no chicken dance, both times the frames broke and even just looking at the frames while the trex is on a bench I was afraid to sneeze in case the frames snapped I have to suggest you are very lucky.
On your crash costs you forgot to add frames to the trex which break so easily and yes they do.

If it is only an opinion that the trex is a pain to work on then lets have a race at changing a full set of servo's while you struggle to even get at the rear swash servo I will have had mine swapped and set up.
The parts do wear out fast if you beat on it and run a high HS. I run about 2 grand and I know people that are running 2200. I don't know many people who run 2k+ on a Raptor.
Look around almost everyone who flies a raptor is running 2k+ you just don't notice so much because they don't tend to have the align pipe which screams so bad for the pilot to stop.
3. The rumors of how bad it crashes and how often it breaks seem to come more from people that love Raptors than own Trex's.
So seeing with my own eyes is a rumour??
So if you think it flies better...Then why are you bashing it so much? I own one, do you? I had one of the first in my area and I flew it today. It is fast, inexpensive, and puts up with getting smacked around at least as well as my Evo did.
I don't bash the way it flies because it is more precise, what I do is correct the nonsense said about it being a superior model in every aspect as its not.
The bottom line is the design aspect is fantastic the flight experience is fantastic but the parts quality is complete crap, If the parts quality were much better then without doubt it would be the whole package, but still it is NOT for a novice.
I would buy a trex tomorrow if the parts quality was there but it isn't and won't ever get any better while people who have bought them hide the fact by saying the typical "mine is fine".

To end, Yes I love my raptor but that is because its ability is more than mine, its cheap to repair when needed and after 3 years and several crashes without a broken frame. Oh and just to aggravate things a bit more I never had any problems with the tail hub, pin in the tail drive, one way bearing, or woof and poof, so therefore because I never had any problems I have to assume there are no problems with these parts right?? and there is still no maneuver a trex can do that my raptor can't with the exception that crack rolling would be slower as the raptor has resolution in its servo control, but then I personally think that trick is an accident waiting to happen and should be banned from public events.

oops almost forgot crash cost for 2 crashes
Trex Boom £7.99 for 2
Trex main shatf £7.99 for 2
feathering spindle £4.99 for 2
trex flybar £2.98 for 2
trex landing gear £7.50 X2 = £15
trex tail boom brace £7.99 X2 = 15.98
Total £54.93
Raptor 50 Crash kit Part number TT3833 £19.99 X2 = £39.98
Total £39.98
And lets add the frames just in case both crashes take out the frames on both models.
Trex Fiberglass 1.6mm £18.50 per side
Raptor £15.99 per set.


Kasama Head :(
The Blingiest DOWNGRADE a Raptor can have

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03-06-2008 01:03 PM  10 years agoPost 77
"Cam"

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UK

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wow this got heavy. I'm getting one of each.

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03-06-2008 01:38 PM  10 years agoPost 78
enahs

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Rapid City, SD

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I can settle this. Everyone wants to fly what the best pros are flying nowadays. WDMLF. What does Manny Lalo fly? Whatever he's flying I will buy so I can be just like him.

---------
Shane

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03-06-2008 02:24 PM  10 years agoPost 79
dannyh5

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England

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I don’t think the T-rex has taken over the Raptor, it has just offered choice. I have owned 3 Raptor 50s in the past, I now fly a Raptor 90 3D and a T-rex 600n.

The raptor is not as agile as a t-rex, so looking through runryder as a whole most people are doing 3D or judging all models on there ability to do 3D. The T-rex is clearly better at 3D than the Raptor because of the rotor head. The head is better for 3D and in this aspect of flying it has taken over from Raptors as a more agile performer. If you like smooth flying, regardless of how smooth you think your t-rex is a Raptor will do it better and a hirrobo better still. So select the right tool for the job and don’t go with the crowd. The Raptor seemed to rule the 50 market place for a long time because it was one of the most agile performer at a good price, the t-rex has taken is spot now but the Raptor is not dead yet. Until thunder tiger redesign the head and release a new heli it will not get any better, having said that will are very unlikely to see t-rex 600 or 700 in FAI comps. You may say so what, but in the far east this is the main market, not 3D.

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03-06-2008 03:05 PM  10 years agoPost 80
Kinger

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Granville, OH

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When we talk about 3D'ing a machine, you really need to take into account the different types of 3D being flown as well. I would argue that the Raptor and the T-Rex are probably dead even when it comes to things like rolling circles, piro loops, piro funnels, piro snakes and such. Things which require quick direction changes like tic tocs and what I call "smack" 3D where you are flipping and rolling the heli with large applications of collective close to the ground would probably go to the T-Rex due to the head design and eCCPM.

As somebody mentioned before, different flavors for different people. It used to be that in the 50 size market there were only one or two players. Now look at the choices modelers have to choose from. I think that's a good thing.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignOther › Is it me or has Align really overtaken the Raptors as having the better helis?
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