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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › New Idea for Single Stick Tx Input
02-10-2008 03:14 PM  10 years agoPost 1
breedatrad

rrApprentice

NW PA

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Hi All;

I use a 3DConnexion motion control device in SolidWorks CAD software everyday at work. It's the cat's *ss for manipulating virtual parts in 3D space. It controls all six degrees of freedom and can be set for only rotation/translation through the software.

What I need is a computer/electronics guy to figure out how to interface this thing with our transmitters. I believe it uses optical sensing on the Cap and is powered by/outputs through USB.

Who's up for a challange?

Brian Reed
breedatrad@gmail.com

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02-10-2008 08:44 PM  10 years agoPost 2
Nasscar][

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Delaware

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Most impressive.

There comes a time when change is necessary and I see this a positive change in the right direction.

Nas,

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02-11-2008 08:37 AM  10 years agoPost 3
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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What is the purpose of this adaptation? Do you intend for it to improve or enhance some aspect of control?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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02-11-2008 01:40 PM  10 years agoPost 4
breedatrad

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NW PA

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It seems more natural (to me) to control all of the flight controls with one hand.

Picture the heli hanging in the air with you holding it by the head, from above. Now, anywhere you move your hand, the heli follows. TR commands become much more intuitive as a rotational movement instead of a (semi) linear one that you have to translate in your head first, before pushing the stick.

I've ben flying since 1976 and've seen/flown single stick Tx's from Orbit, Kraft, EK, Proline, Ace, Futaba, JR, etc. They were OK for airplanes but still lacked the finishing touch for helis... Collective. This unit would add the throttle/collective as well, making flying as simple as "pushing" the machine around the sky.

Brian

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02-11-2008 06:10 PM  10 years agoPost 5
thenewguy

rrElite Veteran

Corvallis, Oregon Where there is liquid sunshine!

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I can see the future!

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02-11-2008 07:19 PM  10 years agoPost 6
rik

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Italy

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Like play piano with only one hand
I prefer two hands music.
Better four hands

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02-11-2008 08:11 PM  10 years agoPost 7
4eye

rrApprentice

Honolulu

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come on now, you can't compare two simple joysticks to a piano

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02-12-2008 12:17 AM  10 years agoPost 8
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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It seems more natural (to me) to control all of the flight controls with one hand.
No doubt this could be done, and quite well probably.

Intuition tells me though that maximum refinement of hardcore 3D control can best be accomplished with our current ergonomic layout, due to the efficiency of division of labor between both hands. If a pilot has no interest in hardcore 3D, then this could be an interesting alternative to conventional control.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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02-12-2008 12:39 AM  10 years agoPost 9
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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breedatrad - an interesting idea and I'm always interested in new human interfaces. Considering how this would map, the cyclic looks like it would map well onto the Rotate; Zoom is an obvious contender for collective but I would be concerned as to the precision of input required, perhaps this incombination with the Forward-Aft Pan; Rudder would have to be L-R pan although I'm not sure whether a rotation feature would better serve this.
All said and done, I would be concerned as to how accurately this could be manipulated by one hand because at times , there can be a huge amount going on with conventional stick inputs. Gentle manouvers would probably be OK although because the unit simply responds by pressure inputs rather than actual physical movement, I can imagine difficulties in getting things smooth. However, perhaps I'm thinking too conventionally here as there are advantages in using pressure over physical movement; ie, it's quicker and perhaps more sensitive. When trying to imagine actually flying a heli with this, it seems like it could get a bit blurry trying to discriminate between Pan inputs and Rotate inputs.
I should imagine interfacing this to a conventional Tx wouldn't be that difficult if one was to modify the internal electronics to generate analog voltage inputs to replace the voltages generated by pots in our Txes

Vegetable rights and Peace

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02-12-2008 01:20 AM  10 years agoPost 10
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Zoom is an obvious contender for cyclic
Do you mean collective?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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02-12-2008 01:21 AM  10 years agoPost 11
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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Yes

Vegetable rights and Peace

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02-12-2008 01:26 AM  10 years agoPost 12
Gary Steward

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Senath, Missouri

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This does look promising wish I could help.

Gary Steward

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02-12-2008 02:26 AM  10 years agoPost 13
breedatrad

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NW PA

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Some Progress!
I've been in contact with Phil from Endurance RC and he's got a couple of gadgets that might just fill the bill.

One is the PCTx Interface.

The other is the Servo Commander software.

He's even sent me a sample program that effectively "reads" the Space Navigator's outputs, but it's not solved yet. Right off the bat, the Z Axis (throttle/collective) immediately starts scrolling- even without input. All other Axis, and Rotations, remain stationary until you move the Control Cap. Upon moving them; their values increase or decrease, depending upon which way you move the cap, but they stay wherever they are when you let go (don't re-zero).

We don't need the X and Y "pan" functionality, just X, Y & Z Rotations (Elev, Ail and TR) and the Z Axis linear functionality (Throttle/Collective). We also need the inputs to stay steady when holding a partial input (They currently keep scrolling at a rate equal to the pressure you're holding on the cap) and return to zero upon release (Except for the Z Axis).

Phil says that this can probably be accounted for in programming but our email conversation was cut off as the work day was done. I may find out more tomorrow.

Brian

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02-12-2008 07:54 PM  10 years agoPost 14
jester4

rrKey Veteran

Brampton, Ontario

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FINALLY!! No more "hold my beer, watch this!"

Seriously though, I think it's a great idea, and may even take off in the future. How does Curtis have his set up? Does he not (or used to) use a single control modified TX?

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02-12-2008 08:42 PM  10 years agoPost 15
Dr Lodge

rrElite Veteran

Guildford, Surrey - UK

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This looks almost identical to the old "cuddle box" arrangement where throttle was controlled by a slider, and the rest as per your diagrams. Its called cuddle box since you "cuddled" the transmitter, controlled throttle with the hand holding the TX and used the other hand to control the single gimble.

Curtis converted a JR transmitter to something similar, moving the rudder from the left gimble, to the rotational axis of the right gimble IIRC.

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200

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02-12-2008 08:52 PM  10 years agoPost 16
Rogan

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Houston, Scotland - UK

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It really needs to have a twist/rotational component for the rudder input IMO.
I'm not sure that controller would map well to a model as it stands. Pan would need to be swapped out for something with a twist (torsional?) component.

These things are only made from pots, couldn't one of the machining genius' here design or fabricate a specialised one?

The above text is not intended to cause offense, unless implicitly stated.

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02-12-2008 08:56 PM  10 years agoPost 17
JEEPWORLD2002

rrKey Veteran

BLUEBELL PA USA

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from what i was told by a not so truthful sorce, futaba is working or in development of a joystick control that has a wrist mounted band then a single stick. but this was 1 yr or so ago and have not herd anything since. might be worth a email to futaba they may need some help.

Trex600n Trex500 Mikado LoGo5003d// Hacker, CastleCreations,Ys 50, JR 7703d/8900, Radix

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02-12-2008 09:05 PM  10 years agoPost 18
psych-lick

rrKey Veteran

Portland, OR

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Curtis Youngblood still uses a modified transmitter. The rudder is on the cyclic stick and uses rotation (large knob) to control rudder. I'll see if I can find a photo or video.

-Jeff T.

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02-12-2008 09:24 PM  10 years agoPost 19
psych-lick

rrKey Veteran

Portland, OR

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You can see Curtis's transmitter in this video..
http://www.curtisyoungblood.com/gal...lidg4extras.wmv

-Jeff T.

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02-12-2008 09:34 PM  10 years agoPost 20
breedatrad

rrApprentice

NW PA

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Yeah, Curtis' Tx is basically a SS setup with the throttle (only) on the left stick.

In my "vision" of how the 3D motion controller would work: The "pan" (X & Y linear axis) wouldn't be used. Only the Rotational axis (X, Y & Z) + the Z-Linear axis for throttle/collective.

Rogan; the control cap does indeed twist to input Z-Axis (yaw) commands.

Oh yeah... Three-axis gimbals with pots are available from a couple of industrial electronics suppliers but they're in the $250-300 range. Using the SpaceNavigator 3D Motion Controller would also add collective control to the equation to give the feel of "pushing" the heli around the sky.

Brian

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › New Idea for Single Stick Tx Input
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