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HomeAircraftHelicopterHIROBOOther › Freya interactions, help please
02-10-2008 12:03 AM  10 years agoPost 1
Ivan

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Wichita

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I flew my new to me Freya today, finally at the field and got a chance to ring it out. I am getting some severe interaction much like a phasing problem, but different.

The elevator and aileron functions are interacting. There is a severe down tendency when using left cyclic, and a slight, not nearly as bad, up when using right.

Aft cyclic has a pronounced right cyclic interaction while forward doesn't have near the interaction, but it does have some left.

I have messed with the phasing block, which doesn't make much difference. eventually I just went back to being square, which I double checked and checked again.

I also checked that there are no mixes causing it in the transmitter, and watched the servos as I moved each stick, being very careful not to move one against the other. Everything is like it should be.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Ivan

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02-10-2008 12:30 AM  10 years agoPost 2
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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If you are adjusting phasing correctly, you should see huge differences. This sounds like it could only be a phasing problem - you are adjusting the rotational position of the washout driver to change this, are you not?

Basically, with either the blades or flybar directly in line with the centerline of the heli and tailboom, the upper balls on the swash should fall directly over the lower set on the non-rotating part. Any deviation will result in what you are feeling . . .

- Tim

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02-10-2008 04:28 AM  10 years agoPost 3
Ivan

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Wichita

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Yes, I agree.

That is why I finally set the phasing "square" again. It should have made a difference.

Surprisingly, adjusting the phasing didn't make a difference, if it did, it aggravated the problem. This feels more like the block slid off the pins, if you have ever had that happen. It can't on this heli, but it would occasionally on my vigor and it would make it very difficult to fly.

I have just given it a thorough going over again, and I still can't find anything that would cause this problem. I am now even more frustrated.

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02-10-2008 04:50 AM  10 years agoPost 4
Auto

rrApprentice

New Zealand

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Sounds strange, could there be some problem with your swash, perhaps binding on the main shaft?
A cracked or binding ball link?

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02-10-2008 06:09 AM  10 years agoPost 5
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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It's a phasing issue. You haven't done it right. Place the blades inline to the tail boom and move the roll cyclic only and see if the paddles move. If they do, then the phasing is off.

TM

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02-10-2008 11:54 AM  10 years agoPost 6
Quickster

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Victoria, Australia

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You may have a suspect servo! Try turning the servo horns by hand when the model is on.

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02-10-2008 03:02 PM  10 years agoPost 7
Ivan

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Wichita

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Rest assured the phasing is not off. I have set up several hundred helis, and the phasing even if off by 20º would not cause this much interaction. Normally I set the phasing by making sure the fly bar control balls are in line with the swash balls, which they are. The paddles don't move when they shouldn't.

I suspect it to be a dynamic load problem somewhere. My experience with helis with incorrect phasing, the interactions are generally pretty close to equal on either side. a like amount of nose up or down with equal deflection of lateral cyclic. This is not like that. It is almost non existent with right cyclic and very pronounced with left cyclic or vice versa, I can't remember right now, been wracking my brain too much.

I haven't tried to stall the servos, I will try that next. All the ball links are good and free.

This is not a EVO head, did the original heads have problems with mast bump, where the fly bar would bump against the head block?

Thanks everyone.

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02-10-2008 03:56 PM  10 years agoPost 8
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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I've got a Freya and an X-Spec here and they don't do that. If the phasing is off, the machine will act just like you said.

TM

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Drones = EVIL

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02-10-2008 05:06 PM  10 years agoPost 9
RCHelicopterGuy

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Michigan

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CCPM issue? Some strange mix enabled in your radio?

These things don't just happen. Obviously, you have something set up wrong. How about a picture of the rotor head, shot from the long axis of the heli. Put your flybar in line with the tail boom when you take the picture. Not that I think you're lying or anything, but it's hard to say anything definitive unless we can see pictures.

You didn't specify whether your machine is CCPM or mechanical mix.

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02-10-2008 05:36 PM  10 years agoPost 10
Ivan

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Wichita

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I have been trying to find my camera, but it seems that 6 kids and keeping things where you left them don't mix. When I find it, I will post pictures.

I checked all the servos, and they have plenty of grunt.

It isn't a CCPM machine. Just a normal Freya. Only mix enabled in my transmitter is FMOD to aux 3, so my governor is activated by the flight mode switch. This was one of the first things I checked, since the 10X has cyclic to cyclic mix in the swash menu in single servo swash type. Nothing in there.

Pics will come asap.

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02-10-2008 05:54 PM  10 years agoPost 11
Ivan

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Wichita

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Found it. finally.

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02-10-2008 06:03 PM  10 years agoPost 12
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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I'm not 100% sure but the head looks a little lower than normal. The phasing looks right to me.

TM

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Drones = EVIL

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02-10-2008 06:13 PM  10 years agoPost 13
Ivan

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Wichita

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Sorry, what do you mean by lower?

I have it set in the upper set of holes for the maingear attachment. Making the mast short, should it be in the other so the mast is longer? I don't have a book for this heli, so I just left it the way it was built.

Ivan

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02-10-2008 06:20 PM  10 years agoPost 14
RCHelicopterGuy

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Michigan

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Provided that the radius block is fully secured, your phasing looks correct to me, too. I don't see any signs of cracking in your washout base, either.

Failing a mechanical reason for the problems you described, I'm still of the opinion that you have a cyclic mix enabled somewhere that you don't realize. That it only happens on one "side" and not the other isn't enough to rule out a cyclic mix, because a bi-directional mix could manifest itself that way. But I could be wrong... it's happened before.

Did you make sure to bench test your servo behavior in all flight modes?

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02-10-2008 06:24 PM  10 years agoPost 15
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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It depends on what mainshaft you have in the machine.

TM

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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02-10-2008 08:35 PM  10 years agoPost 16
Quickster

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Victoria, Australia

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you could also check the bolts that hold the dampers in the head! They can shear if they become loose. Are the dampers themselves ok? I have seen helis with the paddles accidently fitted backwards also, worth checking! Are your blades tracking ok......

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02-11-2008 03:30 AM  10 years agoPost 17
Ivan

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Wichita

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the damper bolts are good, the dampers are ok, but seem soft, I am guessing that is the stock version.

What is the good setup for dampers on the Freya?

I did check all the mixes and servo operation in all flight modes, and the problem occurs in all flight modes as well.

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02-11-2008 05:48 AM  10 years agoPost 18
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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Just as a curiosity, what servos are you using?

- Tim

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02-11-2008 11:00 AM  10 years agoPost 19
Ivan

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Wichita

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8311s on cyclic and collective, 811 on throttle, and a 9253 on the tail

Back to it!

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02-11-2008 11:02 AM  10 years agoPost 20
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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Well, there goes that theory . . . I was thinking that maybe your servos weren't "up to it" and were letting go . . . but an 8311 should do fine - I run 8231's on cyclic on my base Freya, and have no issues at all . . . this is an odd one . . .

- Tim

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHIROBOOther › Freya interactions, help please
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