RunRyder RC
WATCH
 5 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ] 3288 views TOPIC CLOSED
HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › What if you had a Heli (electric) on the space station, what would be the settings
02-10-2008 02:23 AM  10 years agoPost 41
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

torque is related to pitch.
That's the whole problem right there. I think I was absent the day they covered torque and drag when I was getting my master's in aero.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 02:25 AM  10 years agoPost 42
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Bollocks to torque and stuff, the gyro will take care of that if it's setup right. What's great is the 3D capability without gravity to contend with. Inertia is still inertia.
Rockon 'SPACE HELIS' where the blades deal with the manipulation of superstrings.

Vegetable rights and Peace

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 02:27 AM  10 years agoPost 43
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Bollocks to torque and stuff, the gyro will take care of that if it's setup right.
Are you serious?

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 02:29 AM  10 years agoPost 44
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Are you serious?
Guy is NEVER serious at 2:30a Greenwich Meander Time.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 02:29 AM  10 years agoPost 45
"Cam"

rrKey Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Am I the casue of this?
http://www.runryder.com/t407375p1/

A normal heli with the tail rotor below the main blades will cause the heli to roll to the right - this is torque about the boom axis - and this is directly balanced by left cyclic from the flybar.

The other part of the tail rotor force is trying to push the heli to the left - this is a linear force with nothing to counteract it - so my estimate is the heli will drift left. This is usually counteracted by right cyclic BUT with the heli leaning just to the right both the tail fan and the main blades re in fact lifting the heli slightly.

My conclusion is to hover in zero G the heli will need a smidge of negative pitch. And it will stay still. All forces are equal.

I think if you look at all the couple forces, the tail moment and tail gyroscopic couples, everything is balanced.

Try not to get into a circular argument by thinking about it too much.

Solution: Get a MaxiJoker.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 02:36 AM  10 years agoPost 46
Invrted1

rrVeteran

Cincinnati, Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OK OK Spork you are smarter than everyone here, that make you happy? Now how about we let the thread move a little farther?
Why would there be any pitch at all while attempting to be motionless?
I am trying to think about what it would be like to fly around, with very little pitch needed. I think that you would only need enough to overcome the inertia from the last input, right?
Except upon spool-up, torque is entirely related to drag, whether in one-G or zero-G. Drag amount changes with changes in pitch, but it is drag, not pitch, which causes the torque
I completely forgot about the drag
Rockon 'SPACE HELIS' where the blades deal with the manipulation of superstrings.
Now we're talking! I wonder what Michio would say about that?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 02:43 AM  10 years agoPost 47
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Tell you what..... doing the Klein in zero gravity would be sooo much easier. Speak to the heli, it obeys

Greenwhich what how whenever whichart though whoever fish 'n chips

Vegetable rights and Peace

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 02:47 AM  10 years agoPost 48
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A normal heli with the tail rotor below the main blades will cause the heli to roll to the right
The roll to the right is not related to the position of the tail rotor relative to the mains (or to the C.G.) in a typical heli in 1G. This is easy to show if you care to see it.
My conclusion is to hover in zero G the heli will need a smidge of negative pitch. And it will stay still. All forces are equal.
Not true. That will give you a negative force along the main shaft as well as a force along the tail-rotor shaft. Those two forces are at 90 degrees and therefore can never cancel each other out.
Try not to get into a circular argument by thinking about it too much.
Yes, but you do have to think about it just enough.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 02:50 AM  10 years agoPost 49
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Try not to get into a circular argument
Let's see -- mainrotors rotating in a circle -- tailrotors rotating in a circle . . . Nope, there's no way to avoid a circular argument about THIS.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 02:51 AM  10 years agoPost 50
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hold on, are we talking conventional helis or flybarless ?

Vegetable rights and Peace

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 03:13 AM  10 years agoPost 51
Invrted1

rrVeteran

Cincinnati, Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Try not to get into a circular argument
Sorry guys, the whole circular thing is unavoidable.

But really, what about the counter-rotating blades? There would be no tail rotor torque to offset, and mainblade torque cancels itself, right?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 03:17 AM  10 years agoPost 52
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well that's why I brought up the flybarless thing where the 3D stability is stabalised in all 3 axis.

Vegetable rights and Peace

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 03:24 AM  10 years agoPost 53
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hold on, are we talking conventional helis or flybarless ?
Either way. With a conventional heli (single set of main blades, and single set of tail blades) you'd suffer the problems described above. That design takes advantage of gravity, allowing the mains to counter the side force of the tail with only a slight lean to the right. It could also counter the tail side force while in accelerated flight (e.g. big sweeping turns etc.) The only way I can see to manage forward flight in such a situation is to bank 90 degrees to right, followed by a 90 degree left bank. You could approach your target in a serpentine fashion.
But really, what about the counter-rotating blades? There would be no tail rotor torque to offset, and mainblade torque cancels itself, right?
Counter rotating mains would work fine. With both at 0-pitch you'd have a "hover". You could yaw the heli by having a tail in both front and back. The interesting thing in this situation is that a "coordinated" turn would not have a bank-angle per-se. If you wanted to make even a mild turn to the right, you'd bank 90 degrees to the right. This is because the gravity vector is not there to add to your acceleration vector. So if you think of a coordinated turn as a turn that pushes your butt directly into your seat (instead of any sideways force) all turns would consist of a bank, followed by direct aft cyclic. You'd always be turning about a point that lies in the heli frame's vertical plane (remember, there's no gravity, so there's no "real" vertical plane).

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 03:42 AM  10 years agoPost 54
Invrted1

rrVeteran

Cincinnati, Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

all turns would consist of a bank, followed by direct aft cyclic. You'd always be turning about a point that lies in the heli frame's vertical plane (remember, there's no gravity, so there's no "real" vertical plane).
That makes perfect sense to me, because thats how I fly airplanes anyway, I never use the rudder.

So any "upright" orientation changes would be made by only the front and rear "tails", right?

Other than overcoming inertia, hard turns could be made at speed at almost 90 degrees, if I understand this correctly.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 03:52 AM  10 years agoPost 55
Nitrohuffer

rrKey Veteran

Bloomingburg,NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Awesome pot talk!
I bring nothing to the table.

Lungs transformed to take in water.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 04:02 AM  10 years agoPost 56
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That makes perfect sense to me, because thats how I fly airplanes anyway, I never use the rudder.
Sort of the same and sort of different. When flying fast you can get away with no rudder. But a coordinated turn in an airplane is still usually less than 90 degrees of bank (always a little less if not climbing or diving).
So any "upright" orientation changes would be made by only the front and rear "tails", right?
The front and rear tails would control yaw only - in other words which direction you're facing. In zero-G there is no "upright". So whatever point you wanted to shoot towards you could simply roll until that point was in your frame's vertical plane, then pull aft cyclic until you were heading directly at it (assuming you started with forward speed). But that's where it gets really weird. Once you were flying directly at it, you'd push forward cyclic until your main-shaft was pointing directly at the target, and fly toward it with your main-shaft pointing at it. Remember you don't need any lift - your mains are just there to counter the drag from your velocity - so the main shaft will point at your target when flying "straight and level".
Other than overcoming inertia, hard turns could be made at speed at almost 90 degrees, if I understand this correctly.
I'm not sure if you mean 90 degrees of bank or if you mean sharp 90 degree turns. Your "bank" would always be aligned exactly into the turn (rather than offset toward the vertical as we do in 1G). But your turn radius would still be governed by velocity and how many G's the heli and pilot could sustain.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 04:18 AM  10 years agoPost 57
Invrted1

rrVeteran

Cincinnati, Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That last post is helping to make things very clear to me. I see now that turns could be any angle, once you overcome the energy of your current direction.
I'm not sure if you mean 90 degrees of bank or if you mean sharp 90 degree turns. Your "bank" would always be aligned exactly into the turn (rather than offset toward the vertical as we do in 1G). But your turn radius would still be governed by velocity and how many G's the heli and pilot could sustain.
I did mean sharp 90 degree turns, but I was thinking about it wrong.
Now I understand the mainshaft thing. That is some weird flying. This is great stuff, thanks for clearing this up for me Spork
Ain't this hobby great?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 04:23 AM  10 years agoPost 58
eric_b

rrKey Veteran

Denver, CO, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

LOL, with all the arguing, this thread is almost more fun to read than the aurora threads.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 04:33 AM  10 years agoPost 59
Invrted1

rrVeteran

Cincinnati, Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I learned a lot!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-10-2008 04:37 AM  10 years agoPost 60
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I've learned that some threads are enhanced by the lighting of a good cigar.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH
 5 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ] 3288 views TOPIC CLOSED
HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › What if you had a Heli (electric) on the space station, what would be the settings
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 16  Topic Subscribe

Sunday, December 9 - 8:28 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online