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HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignOther › YS50ST from OS50Hyper
02-08-2008 05:06 PM  10 years agoPost 1
tec548

rrNovice

Houston, TX

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Guys maybe you can help me out here. First here are the basics. I have her set-up with +13/-13/8/8/8/8 and run 2150hs in I2 with a GV-1 and Radix SB600 blades.

I have been running a OS50 Hyper in my 600N since May. I have been very happy with it and it makes very good power with the Align pipe on it. I run about 185F on the head and the engine seems to be very happy there. I have about 40 gallons on my 2 Hypers since May (many rear bearings too). Here's my problem. My buddy got a YS50ST and it was sreaming so I decieded to get one too. After all I have the YS91SR on my N9 and I absolutely love the engine.... mondo power. So, I really want to like my new YS50ST but after about 3 gallons it just is not making the power the OS does... and not even close to tell the truth. I'm running everything exactly the same and this motor just bogs and bogs then bogs some more. I'm running a head temp of about 180F and the main needle is at -2 clicks from 1.5 turns out. I have heard the the YS50 needs more heat to make power... is this so? Should I lean her out some more? What temp should I go to? I have heard the this engine likes to run 210~220F. Like I said I really want to like this engine but it's nothing like the 91 so far. Any comments, suggestions, ideas, anything will help.

Joel

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02-08-2008 11:26 PM  10 years agoPost 2
george0079

rrElite Veteran

USA

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You can't tune a YS by temps, or needle settings. You have to tune it by performance. They are a very picky engine. The needles are very sensitive, too. And once you get it tuned properly, it will be every bit as strong (If not stronger) than your OS hypers. Just be patient with it. You'll thank yourself for it when you're done.

Hell... I can fix that.
Uh oh..
Nope.
It's ***ked!!!
RE-KIT!!!!!

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02-08-2008 11:41 PM  10 years agoPost 3
tec548

rrNovice

Houston, TX

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George,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I realized that with the YS91SR, but where are your temps running and where are your needles? I don't want to go too lean to the point that I damage the engine, but I know that this is probably just a tuning issue. Are you running colder/hotter than 180 when you found the sweet spot. Where is your main needle set? I just want to get an idea as to which way to go... and I don't think it's richer. Did you find that you needed more flights on the engine before the power came in?

By the way the compression seems to be good, so I don't think the problem is there.

Joel

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02-09-2008 12:02 AM  10 years agoPost 4
SRXripper

rrApprentice

ocala, fl

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i'm at the same point with my ys50, i got 5 tanks threw the engine and still seems to run hot 210* on the head! very hard to tune for my skill level

EVO50, OS50, JR8103DT, 9252's, Gy401/9254

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02-09-2008 01:03 AM  10 years agoPost 5
george0079

rrElite Veteran

USA

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Are you running colder/hotter than 180 when you found the sweet spot.
I honestly don't know.

I took my temp gauge off. I found myself paying too much attention to it. Every time I started looking at it, I would start tuning it like an OS engine. You can't tune a YS like that. It's just a combination of performance and sound. If you think you are getting too lean, then do the pinch test, or throttle hold test...
Where is your main needle set?
1 turn plus 5 clicks
Did you find that you needed more flights on the engine before the power came in?
My second YS 50 really started coming on strong after 3 or 4 tanks. It took alot longer than that for the first one because it took me alot longer to learn how to tune it. I had a lean run, glow plug problems, all sorts of issues, because I was trying to tune it like an OS....

Hell... I can fix that.
Uh oh..
Nope.
It's ***ked!!!
RE-KIT!!!!!

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02-09-2008 01:51 AM  10 years agoPost 6
baddynergy

rrElite Veteran

sierra madre, ca- usa

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FYI, the Hypers really like it in the mid 190-200f range. Makes lots of power there.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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02-09-2008 02:10 AM  10 years agoPost 7
Jay1

rrVeteran

Colorado Springs

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I did the same thing when learning how to tune a YS motor vrs. an OS motor. You have to go by how it pulls/sounds and the don't forget about the amount of smoke. I think the YS smokes more than the OS does but they seem to run very well from the minute you start it to the last drop of fuel.

Jay
Sooner or later, Gravity will win!

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02-09-2008 03:18 AM  10 years agoPost 8
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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needle settings won't get you nowhere. I have lower nitro (which should run leaner) but I'm at 1.5T right now. You don't mention the heli its installed in but with those pitch settings I'm betting its a 600N. If it is, what fan are you running? This is very important because if you are running a high output fan, you can almost close the needles and bog the engine to death and it still will be cold. Especially true in the winter.

I don't want to argue opposite of what has been told here but 90% of cases where the engine bogs, its because its too lean. We usually always think its too rich but unless there is tons of smoke going out, oil everywhere... you're bogging, you're leaning too much.

Just give it a chance. Open 3 clicks and do a climbout. If it bogs the same or worse, you're too rich. If its better... well, its better

Don't forget to hit TH on the top and listen to the engine. If it crackles or detonates, you're too lean.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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02-09-2008 05:34 AM  10 years agoPost 9
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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not sure why so many people tune their engines by the temps. they never seem to stop playing with that.

i understand the importance of it, and even though i have a temp gauge, i have never once measured the temperature of my motor.

my main tool is my ear.

if a YS isn't purring like a kitten, then its not tuned right.

train your ears to listen to every stroke of the piston.

a good indicator is if your tail twitches in a hover, an inconsistent running engine will cause it, normally rich.

if its screeming like a banshee, its lean. start rich, and 1 click at a time dial it in.

when you have it dialed in nice at hover, gradually increase to full collective to a full power climb out, keep listening, and adjust it again from there.

this is all i do with my YS engines. and im always getting compliments on how nice my engine is running.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-09-2008 05:55 AM  10 years agoPost 10
Jay1

rrVeteran

Colorado Springs

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Furious, you are right. I found out that I needed to richen up my high needle after a high climb out. I would try to bring it back down at 0 pitch and get the crack pop sound. I messed with the mid but it was pretty rich. After richening up the high side the crack pop sound stopped when going back to mid throttle and it still had awesome power. I have learned that it is all about listening and learning your engines sound. I still need to lean out the mid to get a little more power but right now she is doing great.

Jay
Sooner or later, Gravity will win!

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02-09-2008 02:04 PM  10 years agoPost 11
tec548

rrNovice

Houston, TX

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Thanks for all of ther replys.

TChavei: Yes she is a 600N. I run Master Power 30% and the Align metal fan.

I know that you cannot tune by only using the temp guage (this is not my first YS only my first YS50), but this does give good information as to how the engine is running once you know your baseline temperature (sweet spot). With that said I will put the temp gun down and continue to go by ear for now and see if it improves.

Joel

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02-09-2008 02:14 PM  10 years agoPost 12
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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my ideal temp is 110C-115C during hard flight

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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02-09-2008 02:19 PM  10 years agoPost 13
tec548

rrNovice

Houston, TX

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Thank you Tony!

Cheers
Joel

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02-09-2008 07:21 PM  10 years agoPost 14
creightoncarr

rrKey Veteran

Missouri City, Texas - USA

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Just to add fuel to the fire...

I purchased the YS50 from the LHS about two weeks ago to put in my 600N with the Align pipe. The manual suggested to break in at 1.5 turns on the main needle, 1 turn on the idle. I started with the main at 1.5 turns + 5 clicks to be on the safe side and governor off. It fired up great the first try, and though noticeably rich, seemed to run fine. On the fourth tank (same needle settings), about two minutes in, it all of a sudden went lean. I set the helicopter down and the engine hung at a very high idle.

Suspecting an air leak I checked all the fuel lines but found nothing suspicious. So, I fired it up again, and it's now running fine - for two tanks. Then it goes lean again. I gave up for the day, and when I got home I pulled the engine and replaced all of the fuel lines, pressure checked the tank and ensured the fuel filter was not clogged (it wasn't). Pulled the carb off the engine and cleaned thoroughly to ensure there wasn't any sort of blockage. Pulled the regulator apart to make sure there was not anything obviously wrong. Everything seemed in order so I reassembled and remounted the engine in the 600N.

Several days later, when I got the chance to fly it again, I set the main needle at 1.5 turns plus a couple of clicks and the idle needle at 1 turn out. Like the first day it fired up right away and ran fine, and a little rich, through the first half tank. At that point I started to lean it out slightly. Over the next couple of tanks I leaned it out to right at 1.5 clicks. Ran a couple more tanks through it and was pleased. I definitely felt like the engine was already pulling better than my 50 hyper.

A week later I was back at the flying field. Hadn't touched a thing on the 600N or the 50ST since last time. Main needle was still 1.5 turns out, and the idle still 1 turn out. The engine started fine, but was noticeably down on power. Didn't seem to be running too rich or too lean, it just didn't seem to be producing. I tried a couple clicks richer on the main needle with no difference. Closed the main back down to 1.5 turns open for one last try before giving up again. About a minute into the tank the engine went lean and then cut out.

I don't think that there is an air leak anywhere so I'm assuming at this point there is a fuel delivery problem. The tank is pressuring when the engine is running, so I would think that leaves the regulator. I've put the hyper back in the 600N for now and am about to send the YS off to YS Parts and Performance, but thought I would see if anyone had any last suggestions before I do.

Sorry Joel, don't mean to hijack your thread, but it seemed on-topic...

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02-09-2008 07:25 PM  10 years agoPost 15
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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did you pull apart the check valve?

a buddy had leaning problems with his YS before. i found that the tank was getting pressure, but not enough. turned out his check valve was shot.

maybe take it apart and clean it out. or check to see if it isn't faulty.

perhaps something has gotten jammed in the valve stopping the pressure from building properly at random times.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-09-2008 08:25 PM  10 years agoPost 16
creightoncarr

rrKey Veteran

Missouri City, Texas - USA

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You know, I hadn't thought about the check valve until you mentioned it. Since the tank was pressurizing and staying pressurized until I opened a line, I just assumed the check valve was working fine.

I just pulled it off, and while it does work, it seems too resistant to opening. I compared it to the check valve on my 91SR and the one on the 90 is much freer. Before I send it off I'm going to try another check valve. Hopefully that was the problem.

Thanks.

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02-09-2008 09:34 PM  10 years agoPost 17
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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train your ears to listen to every stroke of the piston.
Man, if you can hear every stroke, you're good and I mean that.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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02-09-2008 09:35 PM  10 years agoPost 18
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Had a similar problem. The checkvale would get occasionally stuck. Washed it with fuel. No problem since. I also had a tiny piece of fuel tubing get stuck inside the tube itself (don't know how that happen) and it leaned out too. Finally I also had some rtv flowing into the chamber which made some great autos. I think I run through almost every problem that can cut fuel supply

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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02-10-2008 10:18 AM  10 years agoPost 19
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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Man, if you can hear every stroke, you're good and I mean that
true

i meant it more though as a way of expressing how carefully you should be listening to the engine.

the check valves can cause weird problems considering its job and its simplicity. but it will do strange things to the engine once in a while...though i personally have never had one go bad...yet...

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-10-2008 08:29 PM  10 years agoPost 20
creightoncarr

rrKey Veteran

Missouri City, Texas - USA

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Unfortunately the check valve was not the problem. Even removed the spring completely and still no change. I gave up and put the hyper back in until I could sort out the problems with the YS. I flew with Joel this afternoon, he still had the YS50 in his 600N. He bought his engine at a LHS at about the same time I bought mine. He's got a couple of gallons through it from break-in but it's never run well. Today we tried every needle setting on the main needle between two turns out and one turn out. The engine ran the same at every setting (except at one turn out where it was noticeably lean). It would sound great at hover and put out good smoke, but bogged on minor collective inputs and would almost stalled with full collective pitch pumps. Odd, however, and regardless of the needle settings, every now and then in the middle of a tank the engine would seem to run a little stronger. Still nothing to write home about, but there was a noticeable difference. But then just as quickly as it came into tune, it would fall out again. This happened four or five times and didn't correspond to any particular needle settings. It was just as likely to do it at two turns out as it was at one and a quarter turns out.

I think Joel just about given up on his YS50 (last I spoke with him he'd already pulled it). We both run YS91SR's and love them. Never had any problems with those engines. For both of us this is our first YS50. It seems odd that both of our engines, bought at the same time, are exhibiting almost identical problems. Maybe its just a coincidence. I'd like to think the problem is that I'm just an idiot and can't tune the engine right but I have no problems with any of my other engines, including the YS91's. And, my YS50 was running fantastically, for a couple of tanks, before it fell into a coma. Piston, ring and liner are all still perfect and compression is great. It just won't put out. I want to like this engine as much as everyone else, so hopefully sending it in to YS Parts and Performance will shed some light on the situation.

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