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02-08-2008 01:10 PM  10 years agoPost 1
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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How long before we are driving cars with Lithium batteries of some technology-

Seems like you could possibly get off-the-shelf components and build or convert a lightweight car today, and get significant range and (maybe) economy.... the likes of the big car manufacturers, and smaller ones like Tesla Motors are going there (i think the hybrids are using NiMh now, right?)

opening for discussion.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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02-08-2008 01:27 PM  10 years agoPost 2
scatbass

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Hiram, GA

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The "problem" with battery usage in cars...is that it really does nothing to reduce our dependence on oil. All it does is transfer energy "storage" from one medium to another.



Mike

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02-08-2008 01:40 PM  10 years agoPost 3
Dave M

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Mi.

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I agreed with you scatbass...until I thought of this....

You can make electricity with wind, water, or sun.
I don't see how you can make oil with wind, water, or sun.

And no i'm not a tree hugger....damn it I still ride 2 stroke snowmachines.

It's OK....It's not your fault !!!

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02-08-2008 01:52 PM  10 years agoPost 4
scatbass

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Hiram, GA

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That's exactly my point. Instead of focusing on running cars on electricity, we should focus on other energy sources for the electricity. After we have that...or maybe in parallel with that effort...we can focus on transferring that energy to our vehicles.

Heck, don't forget nuclear energy. Looking to dispose of the spent fuel? Gather it all up and launch it into the sun!



Mike

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02-08-2008 02:59 PM  10 years agoPost 5
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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I had long ago considered why we don't just do that with spent nuclear waste. But currently the cost to put something in LOE (Low Earth Orbit) is like $10,000/lb. I am not sure but going escape velocity (necessary to get it to the sun) is probably 10x more expensive. In all, not a viable option.

I still really like nuclear energy though.

Interesting study I heard about on the radio yesterday- using agriculture products to produce fuel (methonal, or ethanol), will on the whole produce far more carbon dioxide than continuing to use crude and other fossil fuel products.

Still, between solar, wind, nuclear techs to get us cheaper/cleaner electricity, battery-powered vehicles seem very attractive.

For instance, a solar array at your home, charging a storage system from the vehicle is recharged while parked. Same with wind turbines. One could imagine with technology we have now, you could have a vehicle "off the grid" and never needing refueling for most of our commuting and local transportation needs.

In the end, we need to aim at new solutions to meet our wants and our needs- something people will like and want and buy even for just selfish reasons like money savings or performance.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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02-08-2008 03:18 PM  10 years agoPost 6
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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Nuclear energy shouldn't be considered to be a renewable energy resource.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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02-08-2008 03:21 PM  10 years agoPost 7
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Also to consider is the fragile nature of lithium-based rechargables. By the time you've encased them in enough protective material to allow them to survive a crash without flash-burning, your lightweight vehicle has become a heavy one. I do believe they're still quite a bit more dangerous than a tankful of fuel in an accident.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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02-08-2008 03:23 PM  10 years agoPost 8
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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Lithium-Ion Gimbal, not Lithium Polymer...

A123 Cells are already being used in experimental vehicles to replace NiMH cells.

Shoot, even Monster Garage did an electric car episode where they used the V28 lithium packs to run their motor.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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02-08-2008 05:09 PM  10 years agoPost 9
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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I was thinking of Lipos, to get all the energy density. Well, keep looking for the technology to improve their durability and safety too.

A123 cells perhaps best option right now.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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02-08-2008 05:10 PM  10 years agoPost 10
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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I doubt it will happen with lipos. Their are too volatile!

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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02-08-2008 05:31 PM  10 years agoPost 11
rcfreak7

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southern california

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I doubt it will happen with lipos. Their are too volatile!
yeah think about the sise of the pack and that in an accident

i am my own dog

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02-08-2008 06:11 PM  10 years agoPost 12
Rob_T

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..

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That's exactly my point. Instead of focusing on running cars on electricity, we should focus on other energy sources for the electricity. After we have that...or maybe in parallel with that effort...we can focus on transferring that energy to our vehicles.
If you look at the rate that wind turbines are springing up around here, you might assume they are doing that!

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02-09-2008 02:24 AM  10 years agoPost 13
SLC

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Johnson City, Tn

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You will see lithium powered cars in the main stream when there life span or cycles is enough to make them cost effective.
One of GM's main goals is to produce a lithium battery that can withstand 10 years of use.

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02-09-2008 05:31 PM  10 years agoPost 14
bagobitz

rrVeteran

saddleworth,lancs,UK

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UK commercially available wind-turbines are an almighty con-trick.

the major DIY chain , B & Q sells a 1 KW domestic turbine for over £1,000 statistically, it'll only produce for 40% of it's time and only 10% will be at full output.

discounting the subsidy the government presently gives on the generator and the eco-friendly electricity (did I mention the expensive meter?)

the generator will only take 20 years to save it's own cost...pretty good, eh?....shame it's only guaranteed for 10 years!...If you'd left your money invested, you'd still have it, plus 20 years compound interest...ballpark figure another 2,000...which would more than cover inflation.

A huge con-trick,I suspect the hideous great monstrosities popping up on the moors, will have the same load of liabilities for foundations, maintenance and their eventual removal, not to mention the noise, bird-strikes,energy -costs to get to the producing -stage then the maintenance and eventual recycling. public hoodwinking at it's finest!

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02-10-2008 12:13 AM  10 years agoPost 15
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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Lets keep on topic, please, though wind energy is a mighty fine topic for discussion in and of itself!

Anyone check out the Tesla Motors electric roadster?

http://www.teslamotors.com/

0-60 in under 4 seconds (!) and it looks very good- I'd get one if I were in the market for a car at this price. Efforts like this currently fit a niche market, but will push out the technology, right! I work in an industry devoping "prime movers" for aircraft, but the cars and small airplanes is closer to where I "live" day to day and I've often thought of trying to get in on the development of our next generation of vehicles.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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