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HomeAircraftHelicopterBeginners Corner › Raptor and belt drive tails
02-06-2008 01:59 PM  10 years agoPost 1
CUJO

rrApprentice

San Angelo, TX

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One of the reasons I was looking at the Kinetic 50 or the Century Raven 50 was because of the metal tail drive. I was looking at the Raptor for is popularity and available parts, but saw that it had a belt drive. How big of a deal are belt drives and will they allow autoroations? Or better yet, can you get a hard shaft drive upgrade cheaply enough?

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02-06-2008 02:09 PM  10 years agoPost 2
JRjoe

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Jonesville , IN USA #1

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Belt drives actually auto just fine. No big deal....


JRjoe.....
Indoor plumbing??? No, we don't need that!!!

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02-06-2008 02:19 PM  10 years agoPost 3
OK HELI

rrApprentice

Billings, Montana - USA

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people have posted no flight difference between belt and tt.. the belt drive is actually a lot more forgiving if you hit the dirt with it..where the tt will strip the gears.. the only thing to watch for on belt drive is the weather. go outside in the cold and boom will shrink so you have to tighten( I learned the hard way) but it flys great and autos just fine.

Raptor 50 Titan with DX7, GY401, and TT Redline 53 is Awsome!

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02-06-2008 02:20 PM  10 years agoPost 4
snobdrs

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coatesville,pa-usa

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usually after a crash the belt survives, shafts dont.

Support your local hobby shop

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02-06-2008 02:29 PM  10 years agoPost 5
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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yup.
$15 dollar tail boom versus boom, plus shaft, plus bearings.
The tail repair on a R90 is usually where I have had to spend the most money lately

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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02-06-2008 03:36 PM  10 years agoPost 6
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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The only difference most people will notice are the SMALL improvement in auto performance. A 50 autos very well and as the others have said the belt is cheap and simple to fix.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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02-06-2008 06:30 PM  10 years agoPost 7
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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usually after a crash the belt survives, shafts dont.
I just crashed my R50 and the belt was ate to sh*t. It was just plain smooth in places.

I have crashed my 600N, 3 times and I still have the original shaft. One crash sheared the tail boom clean off at the frame. The shaft was still in the boom and in tack.

I think that the main advantage of a shaft over a belt is that the shaft provides a more constant torque and speed to the tail blades. this assumes you have good collective management and are not bogging the blades.

If you are just learning and doing autos, I do not think that you will notice.

Old Guys Rule!

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02-06-2008 06:37 PM  10 years agoPost 8
CUJO

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San Angelo, TX

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I just want to get one heli and do it scale. I don't have the time or enough mone (yet) for a stable of helis. I just want to get the best for my money. I'm not going to be doing alot if any 3d stuff expcept prototypical manuevers

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02-06-2008 06:46 PM  10 years agoPost 9
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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Zane you are clearly the exception to the rule in both cases. I've worn out belts but I've crashed belt driven Raptors plenty of times and never tore up a belt in a crash.

Conversely I've seen tail drive gears go with nothing more than a hard landing during a botched auto.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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02-06-2008 06:58 PM  10 years agoPost 10
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

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I auto tail in and that helps a lot.

Cujo,

If you are just doing scale, I'd recommend the R50.

I have the HawkPro also, is as some would say, a turd. It is cheap for a reason. AND, it is very, very hard to work on.

Example: The time required to remove and reinstall an engine:

The R50 is about 45 minutes.
The Hawkpro is about 3 hour to get it out and another 4 hours to put it back in.

By the way, the kinetic 50 is the Hawkpro with a 50 sized engine mount, the Raven is the HawkPro with eCCPM and a 50 sized engine mount.

Just my 3 cents.

Old Guys Rule!

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02-06-2008 07:06 PM  10 years agoPost 11
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

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barracuda,

The last R50 crash was a bit unique. The tail blades, the tail box, the main frame, and all of the electronics survived without a scratch. The main gear was shredded in three places, and the belt was smooth as a whistle in several places. The Vblades(last of the pre-TST) were buried in the ground about 6 to 8 inches(toasted the feathering shaft), and only one of the landing skids could be found. Although the main shaft appeared straight, I'm sure it is bent.

Old Guys Rule!

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02-06-2008 07:29 PM  10 years agoPost 12
Breitenstein

rrApprentice

Denmark (Scandinavia)

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Example: The time required to remove and reinstall an engine:

The R50 is about 45 minutes.
The Hawkpro is about 3 hour to get it out and another 4 hours to put it back in.
I can't believe that!
I've got a Hawk Sport and I can remove and reinstall the engine in 15 minutes max.
pop off the links and remove the front tray, remove the fan shroud, remove the muffler, and finally remove the engine.
to reinstall the same steps in opposite direction!

Easy!

Jens

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02-07-2008 05:43 AM  10 years agoPost 13
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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Dude, you have to disconnect all of the servos linkages, remove the radio tray, pull that friggen fan shroud off which is a 15-25 minute op by itself, and remove the muffler.

There is no way you are removing the engine in 7.5 minutes on a Hawkpro, period.

The R50 takes 4 engine bolts, some tubing and 1 linkage. A far cry from pulling the whole front tray off?

The Hawkpro is the hardest heli that I have ever worked on.

Old Guys Rule!

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02-07-2008 11:20 AM  10 years agoPost 14
Breitenstein

rrApprentice

Denmark (Scandinavia)

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If it takes you that long, you have too many tumbs!

Popping the 5 links off takes approx 20 seconds, removing the 6 screws that holds the radio tray and fan shroud takes less than 60 seconds. Removing the muffler takes about 30 seconds. Removing the 4 bolts that holds the engine takes max. 60 seconds. Removing the fan shroud takes no longer than max. 2 minutes. Removing the high speed needle on the carb. and getting the engine out of the frame takes max. 60 seconds.
Sometimes the fan shroud takes a bit longer to reinstall though, but not more than a few minutes.
Come see me in Denmark and I'll show you it can be done!

Jens

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02-08-2008 01:15 AM  10 years agoPost 15
Chook

rrApprentice

Esperance Western Australia

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I like the belt idea. It's much more forgiving when learning and flicking dirt. Only snapped one belt when I stuffed it in on the tail in fast backwards flight. This bent the tail boom back onto it's self in a z shape so can't blame the belt. It pulled the main shaft bearing mount spacers out of one side of side frames on the Raptor 50 SE. It's one tough belt.
Our daytime temps aren't extremely low here so don't have the belt tension problems I see on the forum. Just check the tail boom supports under horizontal fin to align the belt on the belt guide pulleys behind the drive cog on the Raptor and it will give you no grief for hundreds of tank fulls.

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02-08-2008 01:42 AM  10 years agoPost 16
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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Briet,

If you can take it take it apart and put it back together in that kind of time, my hat is off to you. Sounds like you can build a heli in less than an hour? WOW

But,,. See is believing.

Do you think CUJO can do it that fast? or do we need a multiplier?

Old Guys Rule!

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02-08-2008 07:44 AM  10 years agoPost 17
Breitenstein

rrApprentice

Denmark (Scandinavia)

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He might not be able to do just as fast If he takes his time he can do it in 30-45 minutes (remove and reinstall the engine).
(And I DON'T see my self as especially skilled).

Theres NO WAY it should take anyone 3 hours to remove the engine and 4 hours to reinstall it!
Thats 7 hours in total!!!
In that amount of time I'd be able to build the kit from scratch including setup.

It's not THAT hard to work on the Hawk, Raven, Falcon or heli-max kinetic.

Especially not if you are EFFECTIVE.

Jens

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