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E-Sky › pitch gauges--what does it really measure???
02-05-2008 06:13 PM  10 years agoPost 1
ezzywave

rrNovice

Wash.

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I am very new to rc helis. I can fly my wifes Lama v4 in all orientations and hover my Belt cp tail in, but that is all that i'm really comfortable with.

What really facinates me with the hobby is the mechanics. I have been a machinist for almost 30 yrs. About 25 years of that have been on VERY accurate CNC machines and CMM's (coororidinated measuring machine). I machine mechanical seals for nuclear power plants, have rebuilt automatic transmissions in my garage and modified the suspension in dozens of motocross bikes.

And I can't figure out how a pitch gauge "should" work.

I have searched this forum, and others, and keep coming up with mixed instructions. But it comes to this-

Shouldn't the pitch be measured relative to the centerline of the main shaft, not relative to the flybar?

What is the proper proceedure for setting the pitch on the Belt cp, with the RTF transmitter that it came with?

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02-05-2008 06:21 PM  10 years agoPost 2
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Shouldn't the pitch be measured relative to the centerline of the main shaft, not relative to the flybar?
Yes and no. The position of the flybar (up and down) changes the pitch, so the flybar needs to be fixed at 90 degrees from the main shaft. Since most tail tubes are close to 90 degrees from the main shaft you turn the fly bar over the the tail tube and get it level/parallel with the tail tube. Some hobbiest have a flybar lock that will keep the flybar square to the main shaft.
Being a home machinist I often make my own contraptions to do swash leveling and flybar locks, which with your experience you can also make your own special tools.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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02-05-2008 06:29 PM  10 years agoPost 3
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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the main shaft is perpendicular to the frame. So lining up the flybar witch is horizontally perpendicular to the mainshaft is the best reference. With any remote the simplest way to set pitch is in idleup mode motor unplugged its suggested to use separate battery to run electronics so your ESC isn't running unloaded causing damage to it.

Ok Idleup throttle stick centered 50% throttle both knobs on stock radio set to 12 O'Clock set blades in reference to the flybar at 0 degrees. When your done with that do the flybar paddles also 0degrees relative to main blades.

Ok your done its that simple.

If you were gonna set it up for 3d we would check +/- pitch around 10 degrees in Idleup making sure servos had full travel but were not going to far as to strip servos. But your stock radio and beginner status the following up top procedure will be great. It was an RTF kind of.

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02-05-2008 06:35 PM  10 years agoPost 4
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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Oh I forgot It doesn't matter a whole lot at the stage in the game your at your gonna go back and have to fudge the pitch anyway to get the cheap woodies to track right anyway. Tracking is really more important than pitch as a newbie. As long as the blades are spinning in the same plane with the aproximate pitch at the right motor speed the heli will be stable and balance better for your learning process.

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02-05-2008 06:35 PM  10 years agoPost 5
Gregor99

rrElite Veteran

Western Wa

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Shouldn't the pitch be measured relative to the centerline of the main shaft, not relative to the flybar?
The answer to this question is another question "What is the purpose of the flybar and why do we need it?"

Your homework assignment:
Read up on:

Flybar and control sysmtems (part 10)
http://www.w3mh.co.uk/articles/html/csm9-11.htm

Flybarless rotor systems
http://www.runryder.com/f124p1/

Then lets talk.

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02-05-2008 06:40 PM  10 years agoPost 6
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Here are some of my tools for my big gasser, an overkill for small models but very useful on large (90 size) models. I'm not suggesting these for yours, but just give you an idea what you can do yourself.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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02-05-2008 06:57 PM  10 years agoPost 7
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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hey gyro how bout an explanation of the big blue bubble level I cant figure that one out.

Remember levels are relative to workbenches first.

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02-05-2008 08:24 PM  10 years agoPost 8
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Sure, I'll mount it then take a pic. Check back in about 15 mins.

Ok, here it is. It mounts to a large flat spot on the top of the mast assy, which I have verified is square to the main shaft (assuming it isn't bent, which case all the pitch work in the world won't fix.) It holds the flybar square to the shaft. I also have a fixture which holds the whole chopper level, side to side and fore and aft (it has a 3 point adjustment). That way I can use bubble levels on the pitch gauge for exact setup.
Overkill, but it's fun and once you have these home made special tools setup is fast and easy.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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02-05-2008 08:40 PM  10 years agoPost 9
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Whoops sorry, here is the picture.

By the way, those nice brass bolts with the nice flat heads should be familiar to any plumber.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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02-05-2008 09:13 PM  10 years agoPost 10
Sgt Heli

rrVeteran

Remlap, Al USA

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Oh yeah Gyro, after a truely unruly visit to the throne those might have to be replaced! Nice setup. Don't tell me thats a granite surface plate that heli is on.

I have a 24"x20" Granite surface plate. I have a .0005" precision level. So I could set that up and then reference the flybar and axis shaft to gravity w/ similar homemade tools and could count it dead on?

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02-05-2008 09:33 PM  10 years agoPost 11
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Surface plate won't help for the overall leveling of the heli since the skids are not level and also flex. My three point leveler works by supporting the frame directly. Then I use the bubble in side of the flybar lock to get it close. Then I swing the flybar around and watch the line level bubble on the flybar until it doesn't move all the around 360 degrees.

EDIT:
Don't tell me thats a granite surface plate that heli is on.
Nope, its just my old worn carpet.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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02-05-2008 10:10 PM  10 years agoPost 12
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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I thought it was to help you be more levelheaded.

I just didn't see the screws to the flybar I get the whole setup now I was gonna add a level to my pitch guage back when I got it. I had to search the whole internet in one night when I bought my first pitch guage. I studied it and using an angle finder before for the life of me couldn't figure how this thing was supposed to work. there was no reference when I read eyeball the flybar I thought hell I could of set pitch with a 50 cent protractor.

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02-06-2008 06:53 PM  10 years agoPost 13
ezzywave

rrNovice

Wash.

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gregor99- Turns out I already did the homework a couple of months ago. I downloaded and printed (most of) Mr. Mills articles. Very good stuff, I can actually understand most of it

So I re-read most of it last night and the proverbial light bulb went off over my head. It now makes sense to me that the pitch of the main blades should be set relative to the flybar.

Thank you all for responding. The knowledge I have gained from this forum alone is incredible. I only "know" 1 person who flies RC and he is a TREX guy. Everything else is junk and not to be mentioned.
In his defense, he is GOOD. Both at piloting and at wrenching and building and setting up RC helis. He says that he has helped a dozen people in the last year set up and fix , and fix, and fix their helis. Unless it is a TREX. Then he sets it up once, and never has to touch it again.

Needless to say, he isn't very interested in the Belt cp.

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02-06-2008 11:58 PM  10 years agoPost 14
slider46

rrProfessor

Ocala Florida

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I can't believe he wouldn't setup your heli for you, I can setup a trex with my eyes closed and would help anyone with any heli set it up correctly, I would make them do the work so they could learn how it's done... But I like all helis......

Tom..... No "D" flying....

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02-07-2008 12:38 AM  10 years agoPost 15
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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You know that is ridiculous since all model helis use the same parts. Id even help you set up a BCPP. Id give you crap but Id still help thats just not right to deny someone all this joy.

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