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Logo 600 › Sheared the Logo 600 3D Main Shaft IN FLIGHT (Not a problem in general but a freak incident)
02-11-2008 05:27 AM  10 years agoPost 101
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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Tail issue, could you explain maybe I can help figure it out. Our is(or was) silky smooth.

$400, where did you get that figure? That's too much IMHO

I've only let 2 people other than my pilots so you must have either talked to M. Fortin or B. Smith(I have a really good memory and Bobby said its not setup for him and Mike said that it felt looser at the center than a flybared heli but heard that was normal...it is). They also flew it on a TREX 450...infact they flew this exact 450(vid on the same day).

http://www.theastonisher.com/ChrisHarmon/FILE0027.wmv

Look bad to anyone? The only thing that didnt hold well was the tail due to vibration but I guess thats only my opinion.

And if your judging the flybarless TREX 600 that was out there that day you should know that the TT blades we were using were tracking like crap and were the ones I put light pressure on and snapped. Its an amazing concept; intense vibration(heli was literally in a blur) + gyros = not so good.

Oh man your good Tick Put a questions in peoples head about a prototype product that you recieved second hand flight reports on, not to mention that it was on a prototype flybarless 450. This is exactily why I dont send anything out unless they are trusted friends.

Just turned on the vaccume because Im sucking you back into this one! If your willing to bash what Ive been working on with out even seeing it, or flying it, then we've got beef. This is defintally not cool and your compleatly out of line.

If its going to be like this I'd rather not release anything because this is nuts...

Thanks for the support Tick your the greatest.

C

BTW:

"My personal experience with the V-Stabi has proven to me there is a lot to learn, for myself and others out here. I have tried some of the files posted here on the net for the V-Stabi, I have no idea how some of you are even flying with those settings. Some feel so bad that if that was all I knew I would think flybarless flys like crap."

You just indirectly let every one know why your second hand assesment was crap. The heli was setup for me. You can even hear Chris in some vids complain that my Tx stick tension is too tight. I have it setup one way which may not be aw inspiring for some.

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02-11-2008 05:58 AM  10 years agoPost 102
Ticidytoc

rrApprentice

Los Angeles, Ca.

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BTW:

"My personal experience with the V-Stabi has proven to me there is a lot to learn, for myself and others out here. I have tried some of the files posted here on the net for the V-Stabi, I have no idea how some of you are even flying with those settings. Some feel so bad that if that was all I knew I would think flybarless flys like crap."

You just indirectly let every one know why your second hand assesment was crap. The heli was setup for me. You can even hear Chris in some vids complain that my Tx stick tension is too tight. I have it setup one way which may not be aw inspiring for some.
I was referring to the V-Stabi not Probar.

I told you it was the future........

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02-11-2008 06:05 AM  10 years agoPost 103
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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So your saying Mike and Bobby or are you pulling my leg? Oh heck Ill just ask them.

Yeah I know that you were refering to the V Bar. But you mention that hey I tried someone elses settings and didnt like them. Goes to show that what I like is not what someone else likes.

C

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02-11-2008 06:10 AM  10 years agoPost 104
Ticidytoc

rrApprentice

Los Angeles, Ca.

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Lets stop the bickering and agree to disagree dude.

OK?

I told you it was the future........

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02-11-2008 06:22 AM  10 years agoPost 105
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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And you said people who flew it had things to say.

Hey man when you say people tried my stuff and had something to say than Im going to do some digging to figure things out. I know the only 2 people who have tried the PB(other than my pilots) and Im going to figure out what actually went down.

PM's have been sent and hopefully I hear back. I want to see where exactily your comming from because if your just putting false info out there thats pretty low. If not then I obviously have a lot to work on.

I dont even know what we're disagreeing about all I now is Im trying to defend something thats been wrongfully dragged into this whole mess.

Your right about one thing, you need to fly it before you can know if youll like it or not. I know I like how my 14 flys more than it did when it was flybared...IMHO it flys a lot better and is overall easier to fly. I know that Chris can do things with his 600 that he has a hard time doing with a flybared heli. I know all of my pilots enjoy the PB.

C

BTW: Some personal has led me to find that Logo tail is sensative to tail blades. I've found that it resonates/vibrates with stiff carbon tail blades(Ive used V's and NHP). As soon as I put plastic KSJ tail blades on(the stock 600 blades or the Pantera blades) it goes away.

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02-11-2008 06:34 AM  10 years agoPost 106
Ticidytoc

rrApprentice

Los Angeles, Ca.

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BTW: Some personal has led me to find that Logo tail is sensative to tail blades. I've found that it resonates/vibrates with stiff carbon tail blades(Ive used V's and NHP). As soon as I put plastic KSJ tail blades on(the stock 600 blades or the Pantera blades) it goes away.
Thats not the tail issue I'm referring to.

I told you it was the future........

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02-11-2008 06:47 AM  10 years agoPost 107
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Then you must be refering to the slipping tail hub issue because thats the only one I can think of. Happens to us quite often we just twist it back in place and fly...

BTW you edited your post because I cut and paste a chunk to Bobby. I thought I was seeing things but I took a gander at what I sent to Bobby is not the same as what you have now. Your one sly guy.

"The preliminary reports I did get were not awe inspiring"

This is a small portion of what you edited out of your post.

If your intension is to try to get under my skin you did. Your intent is to make me look bad by writing so Id react and then editing your post so what I post preceding doesnt made sence and you sound innocent.

You defintally one class act. Keep up the good work.

C

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02-11-2008 06:50 AM  10 years agoPost 108
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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hey , I know one thing about reading all the wasted hipe. theres this with both the Vbar and the probar that can harm a heli called Gain. end of discussion in my book. weather its the bearing. which last a long time on a 14 , or even my trex with 75 flights on it running 12s. or ware out the dampers. shaft breaking is a rare thing, and yes the shafts are on the extreme thin side as it is. but for what it was design for, was the logo 14 back in the day when Ralf would cringe, when we said we were running the head up to 2000 RPMs and thats when lipos first year was out. well the logo 14 shaft made it to the logo 500 and 600 without a change and thats where they are finding out the shafts just might be right at the edge.
Carlos , you know me , and yep I do have alot to learn , but stress and forces is what I been dealing with at reddog mine as a mill mechanic. you wouldnt believe the crap we break due to lite weight shafts. supper cold and our big loaders (35" long)992s breakin the front bucket arms off just because of the cold.
I would wait for a thicker shaft before another flight is taken. but like I said , the force and the high gain along with the thin shaft was not a good combo for a clean flight. wish you could have cought that on video

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02-11-2008 07:06 AM  10 years agoPost 109
Ticidytoc

rrApprentice

Los Angeles, Ca.

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Good Night.

I told you it was the future........

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02-11-2008 07:19 AM  10 years agoPost 110
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

tic , I seen what you posted too. is it a threat? No .

Logo 14 when it first came out , for nicd batteries , lipos was just around the corner
thin shaft was made , RPM range for the logo 14 was 1800 tops , tail is at high speed at 1800, " thats one of the flaws of the 14 when everyone wanted more POWER" HS went up to get it, tail speed to fast and tail blew out because the gyro and the speed of the tail couldnt work together as a team . then the 500 and 600 came out , the shaft was used from the 14. thin and design for the lower headspeed . But how far could they GO. Vbar found it and also the probar. the shaft needs to be alittle beafier.
now I wonder what will it be like in 3 more years, 12mm shaft and use bigger bearing? huh?

the raw power of electrics sure accelarated so fast in just a few short years because of TP

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02-11-2008 07:22 AM  10 years agoPost 111
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Tony all I know is I am your Daddy . LOL

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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02-11-2008 07:28 AM  10 years agoPost 112
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Man Tick you are one sly guy.

First off you flat out say that someone gave you a flight report. Next I tell you I know the 2 guys that did fly the Probar mounted on a TREX 450...no one else has flown it other than those guys. Which leads me to investigate. Those were some pretty strong words to use.

Again a reminder.

"The preliminary reports I did get were not awe inspiring"

Curious what was ment by this, your opinion from watching the vid or the opinion of others who have tried it like you implyed.

"I said what I said, people are entitled to their opinions"

Im not dragging Bobby or Mike(sorry about this guys Im on full defense mode right now) into this I just mentioned they are the only ones who have flow the PB and it happend to be mounted to a 450. If they did have something to say Ill find out on my own but if you were just spouting out to get under my skin you did.

You never let us know what your tail problem was...just curious.

C
PS: Bobby and Mike were both really cool guys when I met them at a funfly here in FL.

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02-11-2008 07:36 AM  10 years agoPost 113
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yes PAW! what you doing up this late Paw? trying to find the bathroom?

he he , alittle hummor is needed here.

its like

[/B] AS THE HELI TURNS

Carlos , Just keep up with what you doing as far as working on a product!

Sounds like the WINTER BLUES! and for the fellows in Fla. go sit in a walk in freezer for a few hours so you can feel it

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02-11-2008 08:22 AM  10 years agoPost 114
Al Austria

rrElite Veteran

Sacramento, CA - USA

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Hey *Carlo, don't forget about me man! I've flown the Probar on the 450 and a Logo 10. All I can say is that *Carlo has put a serious amount of R&D into it and it shows in flight. Can't wait until I can get one.

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02-11-2008 01:18 PM  10 years agoPost 115
SMITHB72866

rrVeteran

FLORIDA

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Carlo

Im not very impreseed wiht what you guys are doing in here it is ridiculous

Youre 450 that i flew was not right @ all the gov wasnt setup right and the tail didnt hold for crap which was probably a motor isssue BUT you didnt want to listen when i was telling you these things

Chris is a good pilot but he is not as good as you think he is also i might add he flies that 450 alot sooooo sure he can spank it it islike any other machine you fly alot you get use to it weather it is right or not

As far as you jumping on DJ he was the Man @ Ircha this year Hands down there is no one that can touch his flying style..............

If you think you can bring that Probar out on the market for 400 bucks DUDE you need to wake up i have flown a few differant flybarless systems and there is NOTHING that will touch the tuneablilty of a Mikado Vbar and the tail gyro is out of this world for 700 bucks. We are flying a Trex 500 flbarless right with the stock head all we did was center the pitch rods and go into the vbar software and tune it to work for the geometry the head is.

As far as this main shaft breakage thing running 140 gram blades is really heavy on a L600 i might also add the TT blades do not track well in flight on the flybarless head and the blades woof all the time during hard 3d moves. I have watched youre videos and the machine seems to bobble alot which means there is a stabilization issue in hard fast maneuvers

I have Many flights on the 2,600's and 2 500's and i can hold my own when it comes to hard smack down 3d flying and have never seen all the issues you have mentioned

You guys using a C50 Hacker in a TREX600 O yea that is a whole nother thread

GOOD LUCK B

RREmodels

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02-11-2008 02:36 PM  10 years agoPost 116
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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First off sorry to Bobby or Mike they shouldnt have even been mentioned in this post.

Next, and so you know we changed to a Jazz ESC that day both guys flew because the CC ESC and tail gyro(from 2100 to 401)was not working very well. It was night and day actually.

I didnt jump on Danny at all I just wanted to see where he was comming from. His post was edited so the replys dont make sence. It was just a miss communication and were compleatly cool. He's definally a very good pilot and Ive got a lot of respect for what hes done.

TT blades arnt the best and is why we dont use them any more.

Radix Blades are good for me because I like the feel. TST V's(128) feel good too. Depends on what you like I guess.

C
BTW this has gone far enough and it got some where positive by the 3rd page but went into a crazy circus thing after. Thanks to the people who support our efforts.

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Logo 600 › Sheared the Logo 600 3D Main Shaft IN FLIGHT (Not a problem in general but a freak incident)
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