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Logo 600 › Sheared the Logo 600 3D Main Shaft IN FLIGHT (Not a problem in general but a freak incident)
02-07-2008 06:18 PM  10 years agoPost 41
ArtK

rrVeteran

Temecula, Ca

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Shaft Break
Not absolutely saying this is the reason but here is one theory:

What cyclic speed where you at when it broke. With a flybarless heli you can get pitch and role rates much faster than with a flybar. The flybar is always slowing the rate down even at full deflection. On a flybarless heli you have rates as fast as you want. If you are a pro or not you can stress the heli just by doing stationary flips fast. I have turned my cyclic speed down becuase of fears that this may happen. A smooth pilot such as Daniel may put lighter snap forces on the the shaft then say someone that might be a bit looser on the sticks.

As for Daniels Comments...
I think he just meant to play devils advocate saying that if anything the shaft should not have broken with someone that doesn't push as hard as a sponsored pilot and that something is probably wrong with it by either manufacturing defect or build method.

Just something to think about.

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02-07-2008 06:40 PM  10 years agoPost 42
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Ok I am going to jump in for abit, I feel a few of you are taking what Danny said out of reality here. I for one can tell you with certainty Danny is not arrogant, in fact likely the least arrogant and most helpfull pro you will find on the boards. Secondly the way we western english people speak and understand english and way people in Europe speak and understand english is a fair bit different, I do not feel Dannys comment was made out of arrogance or out of spite of Chris and Carlos' loss. I say you wait for the man to at least reply or try to have a more open mind before bashing the guy. It is crap like this that brings in posts like "Why Don't the Pros post here??"" Remember that post only a few weeks ago here?

To me what he said means that generally people who are not sponsored fly with hesitation to flying hard on any machine as they know the cost is entirely on them, which in many cases lets face it, that is true, is it not?

Danny is a great pilot and person, Chris Harmon is also a very good pilot and from any communications I have ever had with the guy seems equally a great guy to. Carlos is expressing his situation and his loss. Lets find out what can and will be done to resolve it as well lets at least give Danny the benifit of the doubt on what he has said as I know the guy and and am 99.9%+ sure his comments were not made to be rude in any way regardless of how you read it or feel. Danny, Chris and Carlos are all corrent in their comments, what Danny said is being taken 100% wrong though imho.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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02-07-2008 09:03 PM  10 years agoPost 43
Daniel Jetschin

rrApprentice

Germany

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I want to speak out an excuse cause there was no offense meant from my side and I feel for your loss, really. This issue MUST have had something wrong with it and in no way supposed to happen. I know of "fortunate savings" because the shaft snapped off on impact but never heard of one happening in the air. We flew that Machine up to 700 blades with no issues. The shaft IS very light build but still super strong and if you know mikado machines, they're strong where they have to be. We will change the shafts now to twice the thickness just to make sure it WONT happen in any case again.
Thank you Shawn

Dan

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02-07-2008 09:33 PM  10 years agoPost 44
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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DJ,
I am glad you explained it. Now we can all breathe easier. So do you think Mikado is going to beef up the shafts for all the new kits or are they going to send one out to everyone that has the normal shaft now? I am in NO WAY the pilot you or Chris is but I would like to have the confidence that nothing could happen with one of my "stick banging" moves I am so famous for.....Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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02-07-2008 09:35 PM  10 years agoPost 45
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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Hello

I didnt quite know where Daniel was comming from so I had to ask. I figured that he had no intention to insult and it was just a miss communication. Thanks for the prompt reply.

I'm glad that there is consideration to make a pretty strong shaft even stronger.

Thanks
Carlo

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02-07-2008 09:37 PM  10 years agoPost 46
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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Hello

The question was ask so Ill answer. When the shaft broke Chris was actually up high and not beating it hard. I think he was exiting a backwards hurricane and then BOOM! Lucally it was exiting away from us and up high.

The flight the day before he beat the piss out of it...I think the blade disk was inches from the deck for a majority of the flight...truly amazing. He did many of the manuvers seen in a combo of the 3 vids but lower and faster.

C

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02-08-2008 01:34 AM  10 years agoPost 47
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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DJ,
I am glad you explained it. Now we can all breathe easier. So do you think Mikado is going to beef up the shafts for all the new kits or are they going to send one out to everyone that has the normal shaft now? I am in NO WAY the pilot you or Chris is but I would like to have the confidence that nothing could happen with one of my "stick banging" moves I am so famous for.....Ron
Ron in this extremely rare case I really doubt you would see any manufacture send out replacement shafts to all the kits that were out there. I would only imagine that when these shafts are changed that they would then ship out with the newest of kits and be available to anyone to buy later on. When that will be who knows, I for one am honestly not worried about it. I as well do not fly as hard as Danny but still fairly abusive on my machines and I have nver had any issues with shafts or anything and I have owned over 12 logos now easily. Stick bangin or not Ron I feel there is as little chance of a repeat of this situation with any shaft on any Logo machine. If you consider how many thousands of these machines were sold and the reports of any failure that % is extremely low.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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02-08-2008 01:52 AM  10 years agoPost 48
kogibankole

rrKey Veteran

albuquerque/ibadan

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what about the logo 14's?
for those of us swinging 580 blades on the logo 14; do we get replacement shafts too?

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02-08-2008 01:57 AM  10 years agoPost 49
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Why would you? It is a different shaft from the 500 and 6003D as well as stated at the rare event of something like this manufacturers do not send out shafts to peeps that have been running machines for days or months on end etc... I have had multiple Logo 14s, never had any shaft issues with them either.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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02-08-2008 03:25 AM  10 years agoPost 50
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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I doubt there will be any replacements sent out. Our case is super rare, a fluke case...sucks it was us though.

The new shafts are probably just the next revision similar to what align does. Im very sure that 99.9% of people will be good with their current hardened shafts.

I didnt make this post to show that Mikado has to recall shafts, I just wanted to figure out our freak incident.

So you know I use the hardened shafts on my 14 and Chris beats on that too and it's still fine. I have my HS lower so he cant rip on it super hard but he still gets down with it.

BTW, we just put 8717 servo in the 600 and its night an day on the cyclic. Chris can get really crazy with it which I never had a chance to get on video. When we get it back together Ill try to get it on HD and post it up...8717 servos on 2s lipos is compleatly insaine.

C

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02-08-2008 03:49 AM  10 years agoPost 51
Hoppy

rrApprentice

Melbourne, Australia

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Hey Eco8gator,
Just out of interest, how many flights had the heli had when it broke??

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02-08-2008 03:58 AM  10 years agoPost 52
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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No more than 50 flights. No bumps, at all and it was dead straight.

C

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02-08-2008 04:53 AM  10 years agoPost 53
Ticidytoc

rrApprentice

Los Angeles, Ca.

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We will change the shafts now to twice the thickness just to make sure it WONT happen in any case again.
Awww crap, I sure hope it's a new part number, theres nothing wrong with the old one. Sheeez

I told you it was the future........

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02-08-2008 06:25 AM  10 years agoPost 54
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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Well when we pay 40 bucks for a shaft at least there is a little more to it

Remember when there was "nothing wrong" with the plastic motor plates... Well I consider this change like the motor plate change...there is always room to make a product better.

C

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02-08-2008 07:30 AM  10 years agoPost 55
Ticidytoc

rrApprentice

Los Angeles, Ca.

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One, two? Out of how many sold had this problem? So now it's everyones problem because this is brought to a public forum and blown up into something that is actually an isolated incident. Maybe there was some end user error, product abuse and misuse that we haven't seen or heard about yet?

I told you it was the future........

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02-08-2008 11:39 AM  10 years agoPost 56
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Ticdydoc,
I think that was a little uncalled for.
Now to start riping on Danny J.? Oh come on man, it's no wonder pros dont visit public forums, can you blame them? I give Danny a lot of credit for coming out here, personally I wouldn't be surprised if he never posted again.
That was a misunderstanding caused by DJ because he does not speak English (US) well and it was simply taken wrong.
Carlo was simply putting it out there so that he could find out if others were having similar problems.
Exactly how would and electrical piece of equipment (Probar) that simply dampens a flybarless heli electronically possibly destroy a mainshaft in any way? If nobody reports issues with their helis, manufaturers would not be forced to fix them. Now because CARLO reported a problem that apparently happened to DJ also, Mikado is going to put a more robust shaft in the new Logo 600 kits. Maybe YOU will be the recipient of that new kit.
If it happened to you and you lost hundreds of dollars in a crash because of a part failure (not necessarily caused by you) you would not be humming the "isolated incident" tone now would you......Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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02-08-2008 02:21 PM  10 years agoPost 57
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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First off Im the farthest from excited. I dont like looking at a 2k pile of electronics and mechanics. I dont quite know what details I left out. I admit we fly super hard(its why we baught this machine to begin with), and I took pictures of the shaft. Heck I can get pics of the blades still intact if youd like. Im also willing to send the shaft in for analysis. A heli blowing up is nothing to be excited about.

There was a slight misscommunication between Danny and I. I asked and he responded personally so we could get any misscommunications cleared up. We have no issues with each other and I have great respect for every thing hes done.

I still dont see the harm in posting my unique experince on this fourm... Even Daniel J him self addressed the issue and posted a potential solution Mikiado is going for.

Im not trying to push Chris as the premier pilot in the world or but its true that he is pretty darn good and can do stuff that most cant. Thats why I put him up there with the other top guys because he is one of the few that can really stress a machine if he chooses too, and he does.

Id like to be clear, there is nothing wrong with the Logo 600 3D, or their hardened shafts. I just wanted to get some eyes on it to help us figure out what happened in our unique situation. If you look at our shaft youll see that there are many grooves in it, could that be a potential failure point?... Is there is a possiblity that ours could have been defective? I was just trying to get answers.

We are willing to send the shaft back to Mikado for testing.

I also dont understand why the ProBar is to blame for any of this? The ProBar allows Chris to do things that he has a difficult time doing with a flybared machine. The increased agility and power allow him to really open up and spank it, the 8717s we just installed were the iceing on the cake but we never got to put it on video. If anything its the increased force on the airframe that caused any damage.

Ill be the first to say, that I love Mikado products, and I believe in their helis. I will also say that I personally own 2 mikado machines that I really enjoy. If I was being unreasonable I doubt Ralf or Danny would have taken what happend to us so seriouly.

C
PS: I recieved several PM's from very well known pilots who reported that they experinced the same thing with that blade and some others. If they would like to chime in thats fine but Im not mentioning their names. We have had 0 issues with Radix blades.

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02-08-2008 04:55 PM  10 years agoPost 58
Ticidytoc

rrApprentice

Los Angeles, Ca.

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RON:
We flew that Machine up to 700 blades with no issues. The shaft IS very light build but still super strong and if you know mikado machines, they're strong where they have to be.

I told you it was the future........

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02-08-2008 05:09 PM  10 years agoPost 59
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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Hello

Actually V Blades, Radix, TT's all worked well. The TT's and Radix feel very similar because of their weight. The V's are lighter and are more peppy in flight...Chris likes them.

The reason for that mod on the TREX 450 was the heli was compleatly unflyable with our the weights with no stabalization. Its kind of a crappy place to start when your programming something. Even with the blade mod it still had a lot negative flight chars which were cancled by the PB. With non modded blades the PB made the heli flyable and actually 3D able but it was too active for me.

I dont know what your deal is but hey it happend. I didnt hit this thing with a hammer to break it and whine about it.

Its not that I cant afford it. I can afford the cost of the machine but what I wont do is keep trying to fix it if something will break. It looks like any possible issue there could have been will be resolved...i dont know why your still going on with this, im over it and am happy about what I heard.

BTW put 8717's in that Logo of your on 2s lipo and see what kind of cyclic you can get with it. Its night and day.

The only thing we did to that 600 was tape the board to it and put the best electronics you could buy in it along with sweet blades.

C

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02-08-2008 05:15 PM  10 years agoPost 60
Ticidytoc

rrApprentice

Los Angeles, Ca.

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BTW put 8717's in that Logo of your on 2s lipo and see what kind of cyclic you can get with it. Its night and day.
Ok, I will give those a try. Thanks for the tip.

I told you it was the future........

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Logo 600 › Sheared the Logo 600 3D Main Shaft IN FLIGHT (Not a problem in general but a freak incident)
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