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E-Sky › HBK2, Tail problem and Main blade pitch
02-04-2008 04:33 PM  10 years agoPost 1
e78990

rrNovice

portland oregon

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First, let me start off by saying that I have tried absolutely EVERYTHING to fix the CCW rotating problem on my HBK2: EVERYTHING.

However, something just same to my mind:
Is the pitch to my main blades simply too high?
What if I lower the pitch of my main blade? do you think it could potentially stop the CCW problem I am experiencing?
both my knobs are all the way to the left already, when I push the left one (forgot the name sorry)towards the right, the heli starts spinning even more.

Anyways, any help greatly appreciated.

Thank you

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02-04-2008 04:52 PM  10 years agoPost 2
HeliDuce

rrApprentice

Nashville, TN

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Your problem may be that the tail belt is loose. If you can not get the tail to hold I would suspect that could be your problem. If your headspeed is low due to too high of a pitch setting that would magnify the problem. You can't get good tail control with a low headspeed and high pitch. I'd adjust the knobs so that they are both set at zero and work from there and not in 3-D mode or idle up. The HBK2 flies very well once setup correctly so be sure you check those things mentioned above.
Also, be sure that you read your manual and setup the tail pitch slider exactly like they show in the pictures. If it's not setup correctly and you are either getting too much pitch or too little pitch in the tail this could also cause the problems you've described.

Good Luck, stick with it, and you'll be rewarded with a good flying helicopter!

Gary Morris

Trex 600,Gazaur Mars 480, Trex SE V2, ESky 550 ESmart, Eco 8 Royal, Dragnous II, Falcon 3D, SE,

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02-04-2008 05:12 PM  10 years agoPost 3
e78990

rrNovice

portland oregon

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Thanks for the suggesting on the belt tension, I have checked, re checked, double check, triple check... belt is tight enough but not too tight...

I also followed what you would suggest next: the servo position.
Moved it forward, backward any position available and still, no controle whatsoever.

so I am now trying a new venue, the main blades pitch. since I get less and less control as I push my left knob to the right, I thought this could be the solution to my problem.

I have built this HBK2 from scratch.

Thanks

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02-04-2008 05:33 PM  10 years agoPost 4
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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I do believe your barking up the wrong tree with the main blade pitch.

1:you got to have the headspeed and 15 degrees of tailblade pitch at servo center to counteract the main rotor torque. thats it

2:the tail will be ok at half throttle and above normal mode it takes considerable headspeed to get the tailblades spinning fast enough to hold it.

1 & 2 are the other mechanical issues as you said the belt is fine.

3. rate gyro or heading hold? either way go to rate mode to setup the servo forward and back on the boom.

4. Done the above sitting at 1/2 or 3/4 throttle and still spinning reverse the gyro.

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02-04-2008 05:44 PM  10 years agoPost 5
e78990

rrNovice

portland oregon

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Hey Tryan,

I am bypassing the gyro (stock HBK2). The rudder servo is plugged directly to receiver
Even at full angle (stick to full right: rudder rod pulling toward the main blade) I get no control.

Do you get more picth by unscrewing or screwing the rod that are attached to the main blade clamp?

Thank you

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02-04-2008 05:48 PM  10 years agoPost 6
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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yes the 2 long linkages from the swash to the head. But that is gonna screw up your flight characteristics. especially if they are not done evenly.

Are you using a stock brushed motor? If so I am guessing it is dead and you cant get the headspeed needed to hold the tail.

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02-04-2008 06:36 PM  10 years agoPost 7
e78990

rrNovice

portland oregon

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Hey Tryan...

Yes, but do you know:
if it is screwing OR unscrewing that gives more pitch?

I really am thinking I have too much pitch, so if I lower it, I can get more blade speed which in turn results in more tail speed.

I built this honey bee from scratch, so I am not going to mess up anything by playing with the main tail picth ;-)

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02-04-2008 06:42 PM  10 years agoPost 8
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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e78, Make sure the tail blades are rotating up into the downwash of the mainrotor and the tailblades are not installed backward as well. If you built from scratch the belt could be rotating the wrong way. You gyro could be malfuctioning as well.

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02-04-2008 06:55 PM  10 years agoPost 9
e78990

rrNovice

portland oregon

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Rotation of tail is correct
Tailblades are installed properly
Gyro is bypassed: my ruder is connected directly.

I must have spent 10 hours this week end trying to figure this one out!

PS: the motor has been upgraded to brushless 3900. Thanks for all the help, keep the suggestions coming!

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02-04-2008 07:04 PM  10 years agoPost 10
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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links in shorter increases pitch and vice versa. But if this thing is spinning counterclockwise with full tail pitch. And all mechanical is fine Im still gonna say the headspeed is too low. Esc not outputting enough or lipo too weak.

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02-04-2008 07:17 PM  10 years agoPost 11
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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A real mystery ! Even if your tail slider pitch is not perfect the Gyro will attempt and usually succeed at correcting it providing you have enough servo throw. Extreme Main blade pitch will force your tail to work harder but its not likely to be the problem. Its hard to diagnose things sometimes without holding it in my hands. If you really, really get frustrated and need a break from it, mail it to me, I'm not kidding, I'll figure it out and ship it back, NO charge except shipping.

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02-04-2008 07:29 PM  10 years agoPost 12
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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Careful Doug ... that would be very temping for us newbies

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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02-04-2008 07:50 PM  10 years agoPost 13
e78990

rrNovice

portland oregon

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Here is an excellent point tryan2.. the ESC... I have not programmed it... However, the speed of main blades and tail are correlated so I don t think it will help.

There is plenty of power coming out half throttle!

DougRC, maybe I can do a short youtube video tonight and take a bunch of pics. I would love that you take a look at it but I think I am going to miss my heli too much if I ship it to you!

Thanks again folks! oh! while I think about it: tryan02, could you please measure the length of your links (from plastic to platic, metal only)?? that would give me an idea of where I am supposed to be, I think that would help a mucho mucho. Last time I played with pitch, I shortened it by a lot.

Thank you!

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02-04-2008 08:11 PM  10 years agoPost 14
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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the exposed metal linkage visible between the plastic ball links female thread is 34mm. I believe this is the measurement you wanted? But in case you have different ball links (china distributors:rolleyes the total length from tip to tip is 62mm my ball links are Of course thats just mine but should be ballpark.

ball links are 14mm x 2 = 28 - 62 = 34mm I came up with.

Im still stickin with not enough airflow from the tail although the ratio is constant aprx 4 to 1 the tail isn't moving enough air till 1/2 stick or more to compensate initial torque from the main rotor and is all that much worse with the power of a good brushless as torque is instantaneous and impossible for the heli to hold.

Sorry I must persist in the tail thing this is just an everyday issue a million people have with the king. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders with all youve tried so far but we all have overlooked the obvious and chances are thats where its usually at the obvious as these are not complex machines.

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02-04-2008 08:18 PM  10 years agoPost 15
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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watch the first couple seconds on this vid and notice the kick I get from the 300HDX3800rpm brushless till I get past half throttle and can correct for it. If this is what your experiencing there is nothing you can do. Other than a soft start through the ESC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGbIz-yZlZ0

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02-04-2008 08:38 PM  10 years agoPost 16
e78990

rrNovice

portland oregon

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Yes, these are the measurements I needed tryan. Spank you very much ;=)

I get the 4 to 1 ratio on the tail, I have also full range of motion on the tail.
What I do think is that because I am loosing the tail more as I increase the pitch (left knob on tx), if I decrease the pitch even more manually by unscrewing the rods, I should be able to control it?

Does this makes sense? I have had somewhat a tail response before I messed with the main rotor pitch.

Thanks for the video, if I could only get the kick you are describing I would be very happy: however, my copter just CCW...

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02-04-2008 08:43 PM  10 years agoPost 17
Texas Dar

rrApprentice

Branson-Hollister Mo. USA

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Now that we know you built it, I bet you have them set with way to much pich. One way or the other. Waiting for King parts, but flew 30 years ago, and it only takes a few Degs. negative pitch for it to pin-weel around from the motor tork. Cant recall Degs. positive pitch to make it pin-weel aginst tork, but its a lot more. Thoes little blades have to realy dig into the air to swing the tail whAre it dont want to go. Just looked at my King.Longer push rod gives less pitch. With push rod all the way back blades look to be zero pitch. Make sure yr trim tab is centered, then ajust rod. I would put servo all the way back, and ajust rod so blades look flat, or zero pitch.

Mommy Said, I Can "Come Out & Fly With You Guys"

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02-04-2008 09:00 PM  10 years agoPost 18
e78990

rrNovice

portland oregon

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hey Texas Dar,

Yes yes yes, when you say 'put the servo all the way back' do you mean 'push them all the way down'??

I am looking forward to trying out the pitch thing, really!!!

If any of you have more recommendations on setting those up, let me know.

Thanks

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02-04-2008 09:05 PM  10 years agoPost 19
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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yeah makes sense e78990. I just have never had mine far out enough it would change anything. Curious to hear if you can actually screw up the tail with main blade pitch though I have not seen it. And BTW I believe in Normal mode most are flying the stock remote knobs at 12 o'clock to start.

Past 1/2 throttle Im locked on dead solid (1/2 throttle thats where I usually go into idleup)but I am set up dead nuts in rate mode at a 2foot hover before I went to HH mode. What motor pinion are you using? Im using 10t Im curious to know if your turning faster or slower than me. If you were faster maybe thats the difference in pitch creating more torque.

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02-04-2008 09:08 PM  10 years agoPost 20
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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I believe TEX is referring to full throw on the rudder going from one side 0 degrees to full other side 30 degrees as I mentioned earlier mid stick servo centered is aprx 15 degrees.

this is aprx. the throw I have and I have full rudder travel. If you feel lucky I didnt suggest this you can spool her up holding the tail to check the tail throw under load servo and linkages

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