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T-REX 500 › Trex 500 RF interference with 2.4ghz
02-04-2008 10:45 PM  10 years agoPost 21
steph280

rrElite Veteran

Irvine, California

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This type of issue is not new to electric helis. Back in 2001 we were chasing the same exact problem on Logo 10's, and the solution from Europe was the use of similar silicon spray on tail belt. With the T-Rex500 the problem seem to be amplified to a degree due to the extensive use of CF and the close proximity of all components. I have experienced similar occasional tail jerking with my 500. And light spray of WD40 did get rid of the problem. Realize the jerking is not due to radio interference, but static discharge from tail belt. It's like zapping your radio system with a voltage spike. So even if you were to run 5.4Ghz radio systems it will not help.

Here is a cool photo of the static discharge to the gyro back when the Europeans were troubleshooting similar issue.

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02-04-2008 10:50 PM  10 years agoPost 22
The_Widowmaker

rrElite Veteran

Bear Valley Springs, CA

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Good post steph280...

for those that dont spot it immediately, look at the bottom back of the gyro under the superimposed TO.

"I'm a Virgin.. I'm just not very good at it. "

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02-04-2008 11:08 PM  10 years agoPost 23
Boidman (RIP)

rrKey Veteran

The Home Stretch

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That is a good picture. I have never been able to get an image that no one would dispute, but have certainly tried. On a 450 where everything was done to increase the likelihood of visible static discharge, a bluish-white aura can be seen when looking past the pulleys and crossmembers into the rear end of the boom, in a darkened room. All my shots showed the glow faintly, but I could get identical or better results real quick with simple post-processing.

Thanks for your sample.

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02-04-2008 11:20 PM  10 years agoPost 24
TaleGunner

rrElite Veteran

Deer Park WA

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Well I must admit that the silicon spray has worked for both helis And I have now flown 6 - 7 min flights today without 1 glitch that I could notice. To answer a question by armmaster earlier ( how often to lube ) I can say every 6 or more flights so far. My new question is ( is this fix from the lube job last night or a factor of today's weather? ) So when they had this issue in Europe did they just keep lubing belts or was there a permanent fix?

I was hopping that it would start doing it again so I could try widowmakers tail grounding fix, I think I will get the metal tail unit and do it anyhow but I will try and get it to glitch before I do.
I haven't been into helis for very long but have never had to lube belts before. Is this something we should do anyhow for the belt life or less resistance? Armsmaster has been flying helis for over 10 years and has never had this issue or lubed a belt.

That static discharge is a cool pic lucky shot or high speed filming?

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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02-05-2008 12:06 AM  10 years agoPost 25
steph280

rrElite Veteran

Irvine, California

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Between them and some of us US guys, we have tried just about everything mentioned above. We had grounding wires out of the yingyang, that actually increased interference in some instances. As far as I know, regular spray of silicon lube was the "permanent" solution they end up with. Their lube of choice was something called Graphit33, which are pretty rare in the us. It eventually become a common item sold through most European heli shops, even Schulze had it listed in their catalog as the recommended spray to use when their ESC is installed in helis.

I couldn't locate the original source of that photo anymore. But if I remember correctly, it was a high speed shot in a setup specifically to replicate the problem.

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02-05-2008 12:50 AM  10 years agoPost 26
Paul Susbauer

rrApprentice

Hillsboro, OR

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Hey Perry,
Want to try to meet up sometime this weekend? I have yet to have any issues with mine. Also look in my gallery at how I"ve got the antennas run with the Spektrum receiver. Maybe another set of eyes would help.

To all:
I've run both the Spektrum module in a 14MZ as well as a Futaba FASST module on a 607 rx w/o issue and I'm in the same neck of the woods as Armsmaster, so I doubt its atmospheric conditions. I've been flying mine since the first week they were available without issues. I have not grounded the boom, or ESC or anything, nor have I used any of the sprays.

I do remember a few years ago all the issues with the Logo's, I experienced a little of it myself back then.

Ineptitude - If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.

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02-05-2008 03:18 AM  10 years agoPost 27
ARMSMASTER

rrVeteran

spokane, wa

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Paul,
Thanks for the offer. I sent you a PM and you can get back when you get a chance. I moved my RX down to the lower main frame and will see what that does. Problem is that it is now working with the spray on the belt. I guess I will have to wait and see what happens.. These heli's should not have these issues. Never had these problems on any of my nitro heli's. The only issue I ever had was my carbon predator and that all stopped when I switched over to spectrum.... I do not know what the answer is to this issue. I sure would hate to have to lube my tail every time I fly... Is all this lube safe and ok for the tail belt.......

Life is like a box of chochlates!

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02-05-2008 03:32 AM  10 years agoPost 28
LouInSD

rrVeteran

San Diego CA USA

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I had a couple problems with glitches on my 600 until I ran a ground wire from the frame to the negative on my AR 7000. Haven't had a problem since.

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02-05-2008 03:49 AM  10 years agoPost 29
bparro

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indianapolis,in

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A nitro helis belt is always being lubed by the exhaust so I dont think static would ever be a problem.

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02-05-2008 04:54 AM  10 years agoPost 30
ARMSMASTER

rrVeteran

spokane, wa

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I can agree with the nitro smoke... My buddy tailgunner has two Trex600e's and he has never had any issues with his heli's. So I wonder what makes the 500 tail such an issue. I think I may give the techs at horizon support a call in the morning and see what they have to say....
Keep the idea's coming. I know that sooner or later we will figure out this issue. I will try to test hover my heli in the morning.

Tailgunner: it looks like in the mean time we just need to keep a supply of spray lube on hand..

Life is like a box of chochlates!

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02-05-2008 05:35 AM  10 years agoPost 31
Tony Whiteside

rrKey Veteran

Shepherdsville, KY US

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i dont think the torque tube upgrade could get here fast anuff at this point.
the only thing i dont like about a torque tube on a heli this small dont think it will holded up well being so small. i can almost see gears popping on the first rough auto.i hope there will be a nice fix soon.
Tony

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02-05-2008 03:37 PM  10 years agoPost 32
TaleGunner

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Deer Park WA

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I got plenty of lube

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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02-05-2008 03:43 PM  10 years agoPost 33
TaleGunner

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Deer Park WA

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Oh Ya . I flew a total of 8- 7min flights yesterday with out relubing the belt and not one glitch. If it stops snowing I will try again today. or maybe just hover it in the shop. I would like to get it to do it again so I can try some other cures. befor I relube

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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02-06-2008 01:58 AM  10 years agoPost 34
hrosee

rrApprentice

Richardson, Texas

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I have been sprying my 450se belt since I got it over a year ago. I did it to make the belt last longer. I am still on the original belt.

I am now building a 500 and plan on doing the same thing and in addition to making the belt last longer it seems it will stop the static discharge problem.

Has anyone actually crashed from this problem or does it just cause you to pucker up a little?

2 - Raptor 50's V2

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02-06-2008 02:46 AM  10 years agoPost 35
gixxernoob

rrApprentice

fairfax, va

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just curious "hrosee" how often did you spray the belt?


M's Ichiro (51)

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02-06-2008 03:12 AM  10 years agoPost 36
ARMSMASTER

rrVeteran

spokane, wa

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My glitch is so bad in my 500 it is not flyable. I would hate to be in the air and the magic belt spray wear off. Now here is a theory that I have come up with...

Paul Susbaur is flying the same heli as I and he got one of the first released. He has had not a single issue..... Now I wonder that if the problem goes away with some spray lube on the heli which cures the static from the belt, is it possible that the first batch of 500's had a different tail belt in them. I mean the tail belt made from different materials??????? If so that could be the difference as to why some are having no issues and others are haveing all sorts of issues. Perhaps being in a snowy climate I could just not fly it untill spring when the humidity goes back up.... What is up with this........
I talked to tailgunner today and he took his belt out of his and completly cleaned it and the glitch came back as strong as ever.... He tried to ground the tail to the frame with no improvement, he moved the RX all over with no help, he sprayed the belt and all of the issue went away. Just wondering how often you need to spray the belt...

Life is like a box of chochlates!

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02-06-2008 03:51 AM  10 years agoPost 37
Boidman (RIP)

rrKey Veteran

The Home Stretch

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My only direct experience is with 450's . . .

I am not inclined to think different belt materials could be the issue. Why?

As a kid, I had a small Van de Graaff generator. It was around a foot tall, with maybe a 3" diameter metal sphere on top. The motor was a fairly generic record player type jobber. The pulleys were plastic, and you wrapped wool yarn tightly around them. The belt was an about 3/4" wide rubber band. Over time, as the belts rotted and the spares ran out, sections of automotive innertubes were used, and sometimes slit open lengths of surgical tubing were knotted into a belt. I believe those were three different but similar materials.

I've built many 450's. One screw, washer, and carbon patch is fully scratched up at each seperate metal component in the frame. That gives electrical continuity from one end to the other.

I can't suggest a belt spraying frequency because static is a secondary issue to friction reduction on all those helis. They get their belts lubed probably around every 20-30 flights.

I got some graphite powder off a job. It is probably the same stuff that some hardware stores and locksmiths carry for . . . lubing locks. Me and the gang spray aerosol silicone into small squeeze bottles and add a little graphite to it. The bottle needs to have a good seal so that the carrier solution for the silicone doesn't evaporate. The mild slurry is smeared on the belt with a cotton swab.

It is more effort than most are willing to go through, but there are dozens of 450's that I know of that never have any problems using either radio frequency type, and get .049 seconds longer than standard auto hang times.

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02-06-2008 03:54 AM  10 years agoPost 38
Tony Whiteside

rrKey Veteran

Shepherdsville, KY US

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ARMSMASTER
You are funny LMAO! MAGIC BELT SPRAY.But i do see your point.i would not want to be flying when the magic stops working ether.Thats good stuff there.Funny!!woo wee killing me

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02-06-2008 04:31 AM  10 years agoPost 39
ARMSMASTER

rrVeteran

spokane, wa

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hotshottony,
Not so funny if you are the one flying when the magic go juice runs out!!!!! I guess if it is a solution, that is what I will do. But there has to be a better explanation........or fix......

Life is like a box of chochlates!

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02-06-2008 04:34 AM  10 years agoPost 40
TaleGunner

rrElite Veteran

Deer Park WA

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What armsmaster didn't say in that post was that after everything els he tried. he lubed his tail belt (WITH MAGIC SPRAY! LOL )and flew his 500. It stopped his glitch just as fast as it did mine. I think we all agree this is a ESD issue caused by the tail belt. and since grounding didnt solve our problem. and we did everything recommended by every post out there except get a metal tail unit ( I will do that) or change to GF frame ( we will try that as well) we use tri-flow silicone and it works so we can fly for now! Until the magic wears off yesterday after 1 spray I flew 8 packs 7 min ea. with no glitches , brownouts, resets , whatever you want to call them. it was rock solid. today I cleaned the belt, tube and tail parts put it back together and my glitch was back.I even grounde the tail shaft to the tube to the frame.GLITCH GLITCH GLITCH! sprayed it with tri flo again and its gone! flies great.
MAGIC! that's our story and were sticking to to it.

Until someone comes up with a real fix, provided there is one! I'm going to lube my belt and fly.

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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