RunRyder RC
WATCH
 8 pages [ <<    <     3      4     ( 5 )     6      7     NEXT    >> ] 8865 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Something interesting about Duralite Regulators
02-08-2008 03:41 PM  10 years agoPost 81
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

7.1 volts would normally be a 'dont fly anymore' voltage wouldn't it?

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-08-2008 06:51 PM  10 years agoPost 82
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Other than the dude II's test, I think the original test... was well...

Who is dropping 2amps continuously across the regulator for ten minutes, two minutes, or even 2 seconds?

A 2s1p li-ion will barely handle that. I replied to a post about using a 2s2p li-ion, and all I got was "OVERKILL."

Also, the duralite regulator says do not block the airflow.

Furious, I would like to see how your test works out on the align, reactor and arizona regulators. Just to be fair?

Old Guys Rule!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-08-2008 07:57 PM  10 years agoPost 83
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Who is dropping 2amps continuously across the regulator for ten minutes, two minutes, or even 2 seconds?
2amps is an average consumption rate. it is well documented that a 90 heli with all digitals, gyro's, governor's ect, will pull an average of anywhere between 1.5 to 2 amps, depending on setup and flying style. and in all fairness, IMO, for a regulator rated for 7.5 amps, i would have thought 2 amps would be putting it on vacation.

i already posted my results of the align 2 in 1. the heat sink was a full 20C lower on the same load as the duralite.

my other lipo controller will be comming back from germany in a couple weeks, and i will do the same tests with it as i have done with the rest.

please dont get the impression that i am trying to bash duralite. i have nothing against them. i just wanted to see for myself what it could really take, and post the results.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-08-2008 08:01 PM  10 years agoPost 84
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Who is dropping 2amps continuously across the regulator for ten minutes, two minutes, or even 2 seconds?
I guess you haven't checked the availale information,

And that's AVERAGE current consumption.
Peak can be twice as much.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-08-2008 10:02 PM  10 years agoPost 85
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hey AirWolf, you should add the crack pack to that list once you get your hands on some of those 8717's

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-08-2008 10:36 PM  10 years agoPost 86
The Dude II

rrVeteran

IN - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

On 1-26-08 I charged the battery to 8.4VDC on the triton.

I was out flying 1-27-08 for about 24 minutes before I cut the boom off. (radio gremlin! got me some new pot(s) now thanks Hobby Services)

The 7.6 VDC was from the battery not being fully charged...I'd estimate with the flight time and sitting on the bench for a week...maybe 50%.

Fromeco states that 7.0 VDC @ 1Amp load is "no fly"...figure the battery had more than enough energy for the purpose of this informal test.

Even at a full charge (8.4 - 6.0)x 2A ~5 watts...still think there's plenty of "headroom" for the Arizona heat sink design.

My flying buddy gave a me a Venom VTM (temperature monitor) the other day for filling his belly full of good food...and his head full of "white russians" (hence my user & tag line...if you're "not out of your element" ).

The VTM is really for head temps I suppose...but right now it's outside my office window measuring accurately at 47F...think I'll strap the VTM on the rebuilt heli and get some "real data" on the Arizona heat sink sitting inside a canopy...it has a "min & max" function.

Consider this real quick if you doubt your heli DOESN'T PULL AT LEAST 2 Amps...in my test...I stirred the sticks for about 30 seconds...making sure that all servos (3 cyclic, 1 throttle & 1 tail pitch)were all making full deflection travels...these were servos just bolted to the frame...no linkages to the swash...and with 9155s...I was measuring between 1.64A (min) to 2.02 (max)..."no load". Strap-on some 600mm blades or 90-size 680-710mm to a swash & head...and these servos will be pulling a serious load if you're perforing tic-tocs, KAOS or many other moves.

If nothing else, this thread has allowed me to run down yet another "rabbit hole" with a nugget of knowledge at the end...regulators can get "overlaoded" if they are wrapped airtight and stuffed in a canopy with little airflow...and certainly...we CAN over-heat our electronics if we fly hard 3D back-to-back flights without letting the bird cool down when ambient temps are high (summer time).

The Dude abides.

lotta ins, lotta outs

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-08-2008 11:32 PM  10 years agoPost 87
baby_zyklon

rrElite Veteran

Singapore

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A 50size on full digital servos doing "modern 3d" will draw over 2amp average and I am talking about weekend stick banging, not some pro flying. Lets also not forget that the amp draw on airwolf's chart was done quite a while back, when inverted flight and flips was 3d and 9252's were fast. Perhaps its time to for a update?

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-08-2008 11:48 PM  10 years agoPost 88
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

i agree on the update, it wouldn't be that hard. most of us know how many mA we put back into our packs, we all know our specs, and our flying times. its all you need to get an average amp draw.

example.

here are my Century Freestyle spec's

YS91 with dual plug Viper Head
Futaba 9451 cyclic servo's
Futaba 601/9251
Futaba 9253 throttle servo
TJ RevMax
AR7000 rx
Dualsky 2S2P 4500mAh lipo
VS-5S lipo controller set for 5.4 volts
690mm Rotor Tech main blades
105mm Rotor Tech tail blades

Average mA from each flight = 350mAh

average flight time 10 minutes (with a few ounces of fuel reserve)

flying style: mild 3D, loops, rolls, backwards inverted flying, funnels, tick tocks, all the basics. plus the odd stick banging if im in the mood to try and break something...it never happens

so 350mAh in 10 minutes.

10min = .166hours

350mAh/.166h = 2100mA = 2.1Amps average draw

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-09-2008 12:15 AM  10 years agoPost 89
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Send me some numbers and I'll be happy to update.

Flight duration
Number of flights
how much mah you put back in
equipment inventory

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-20-2008 11:10 PM  10 years agoPost 90
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

UPDATE
well, i just got my VS-5S lipo controller back from helitron from repairs (i accidently shorted it and burnt out the 50amp regulator).

The controller is set for 5.4 volts. at a 1amp load, the heat sink maxed out at 66C, i went to 2amps, but when it started to aproach 80C and signs that it was going to go higher, i ended the test.

so here is a summary of the results i have found.

Duralite 7.5amp 5.9 volt regulator
2amp load = 80C on heat sink

Align 2 in 1 set for 5.7 volts
2amp load = 60C on the heat sink

VS-5S lipo controller from helitron set at 5.4 volts, rated 15amps steady, 50 burst.
1amp load = 66C
2amp load > 80C

im sure that if i were to set the Helitron controller to a higher voltage it would drop the temperature. it is trying to dump a full watt more then the duralite.

note that all tests were done with a fully charged 4500mah 2S2P lipo, and all measurements where taken on the hottest spot of each heat sink.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-20-2008 11:18 PM  10 years agoPost 91
deafheliflyer

rrKey Veteran

Arizona

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

hi
thats why Fromeco AZ regulator has a HUGE heatsink..

Makes sense..
I will ONLY use Az regulators

With that said, I would like to see some testing on Az Regulator to see if its any better

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-20-2008 11:20 PM  10 years agoPost 92
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

i would do tests on ALL lipo regulators if i had then, those are the only 3 i have. maybe someone else with other regulators could do similar tests and post the results using the same methods i did...just to keep things consistent.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-20-2008 11:40 PM  10 years agoPost 93
The Dude II

rrVeteran

IN - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Curious as to why the lower output voltage...I would set the output as close to 6VDC so as "to get the most" out of my servos...AND relieve the regulator of some "extra work".

Either way...some times I wonder how many hairs we must split with an axe!!!

I'll still post some Fromeco temps once I rebuild my Helis...currently I'm "Stink-on-SH$T" on this bird...

lotta ins, lotta outs

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-20-2008 11:53 PM  10 years agoPost 94
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It's all boing to boil down to which one has the biggest, most exposed heat sink.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-21-2008 12:12 AM  10 years agoPost 95
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

well if thats the case, out of the 3, the align wins, second is the VS-5S, then the duralite....what exposed heat sink?

i may end up setting up the VS-5S for a higher voltage, it just isn't as easy as turning a POT, it needs to be taken apart and jumpers must be soldered in place.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-21-2008 02:55 AM  10 years agoPost 96
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

....what exposed heat sink?
I've seen too many regulators for model electronics that have their heat sinks mostly wrapped in heat shrink

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-22-2008 09:16 AM  10 years agoPost 97
ozace

rrKey Veteran

melbourne, australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A while back i decided to test some of the regs and things i had laying about. I am no electrical genius i just set up a test rig to pull up to a max of 6 amps. I ran a emeter to read the numbers and a temp gun to find the hotest spots.

GP 3700 nimh 4 cell pack.
start voltage = 5.6v
5.5amp @ 5.45v peak
5amps @ 5.4v after 1 min
4.79amp @ 5.27v at 2 min

GP 2000 nimh 4 cell pack 5/4 a size
start voltage = 5.6v
4.65 amp @ 5.10v peak
4.40 amps @ 4.85v after 1 min
4.40 amp @ 4.85v at 2 min

GP 2000 nimh 4 cell pack 5/4 a size second run , 20 min gap
start voltage = 5.4v
4.62 amp @ 4.90v peak
4.20 amps @ 4.80v after 1 min
4.20 amp @ 4.80v at 2 min

GP1100 nimh 4/5a cells 4 cell pack
start voltage = 5.6v
4.57amp @ 4.94v peak
4.3amp @ 4.76v after 1 min
4.28amp @ 4.7v after 2 mins

GP1100 nimh 4/5a cells 4 cell pack (second run 30min wait between tests)
start voltage = 5.29v
4.00amp @ 4.5v peak

lasted 40 seconds before dumping. This pack is 12 months old and not abused but not looked after either.

JR 4 cell 1100mah rx pack (charged at 1amp and tested hot off charger)
start voltage = 5.6v
4.69 amp @ 5v peak
4.25 amp @ 4.7v after 1 min
4.17 amp @ 4.65v after 2 mins

JR 4 cell 1100mah rx pack (25 min wait after first test)
start voltage = 5.27v
4.15 amp @ 4.67v peak
4.00 amp @ 4.5v after 1 min
4.00 amp @ 4.5v after 2 mins

Shortly after the 2min mark the pack dumped. This was a new pack in excellent condition

JR 4 cell 1100mah rx pack (30 min wait after second test)
start voltage = 5.20v
4.10 amp @ 4.50v peak
3.80 amp @ 4.4v after 1 min
3.80 amp @ 4.4v after 2 mins

during the 2nd min the pack could be forced to dump by cycling the load.

Then i decided to try my regs/becs i had laying about.

Hyperion ticool switching bec rated for 4 amps sustained. unit started at 19 deg C
Input 2s flightpower 1500mah pack (voltages not recorded)
5v setting gives 5.13v actual

4.2 amps @ 4.64v peak reading and it stayed there
at 1 min reading were the same ,temp at 80 Deg C
at 2 min reading were the same ,temp at 100 Deg C

Hyperion ticool switching bec rated for 4 amps sustained. unit started at 20 deg C
Input 2s flightpower 1500mah pack (voltages not recorded)
6v setting gives 6.11v actual

5.2 amps @ 5.52v peak reading
this time i ran it at a constant 3amp load (temp concerns)
at 1 min reading were 5.76v @ 3 amps ,temp at 60 Deg C
at 2 min reading were the same ,temp at 112 Deg C and melted the shrink wrap

Align 3 amp Reg starting temp 20deg C
Input 2s flightpower 1500mah pack (voltages not recorded)
Start voltage 5.78v
peak reading 5.15amps @ 5.45v
Test run at 3 amp draw (units recommended ability)
3 amps @ 5.5v , at 1 min 80 deg C
same at 2 mins 106 deg C

Arizona heli reg starting temp 20 deg C
Input 2s flightpower 1500mah pack (voltages not recorded)
for this one i just ran the "orange" lead with the voltage set to 5.8v, As the rating is so low on the arizona i ran the first test at a 3 amp draw to get a feel for things ( too expensive to destroy).

peak test was 5.4 amps @ 5.6v
3 amps @ 5.71v for 1 min, temp 30 deg C
3amps @ 5.71v for 2 mins, temp 43 deg C

I chose not to test the gyro portion of the arizona as i figure it is only running the one component (gyro and servo) but it would contribute to heat. I figure that the rating of the unit is about right at the 3 amp mark and it looks like it will cope with peaks up to 5amps. I also decided not to run it at a loer voltage as heat would concern me.

Duralite 6v Reg starting temp 20deg C
Input 2s flightpower 1500mah pack (voltages not recorded)
Start voltage 5.94v
peak reading 5.50amps @ 5.67v
Test run at at max amp draw
5.5 amps @ 5.67v , at 1 min 30 deg C
same at 2 mins 38 deg C

no name 3-5 amp bec starting temp 20deg C (bought from taiwa)
Input 2s flightpower 1500mah pack (voltages not recorded)
Start voltage 5v setting 5.22v and 6v setting 5.92v
test run using the 6v setting
peak reading 5 amps @ 5.45v
Test run at 3 amp draw (units recommended ability)
3 amps @ 5.6v , at 1 min 65 deg C
test stopped at 1:10 sec as temp spiked and shrink wrap melted followed by vltage drop.

Koolflight Ubec 3 amp 5v bec starting temp 20deg C
input 4s lipo pack 2000mah
Start voltage 4.97v
peak reading 4.32 amps @ 4.8v
Test run at 3 amp draw (units recommended ability)
3 amps @ 4.83 , at 1 min 60 deg C
same at 2 mins 78 deg C

Align 2 in 1 6 amp old style Reg starting temp 20deg C
Input 2s flightpower 1500mah pack (voltages not recorded)
Start voltage 5.76v
peak reading 5.45amps @ 5.76v
Test run at at peak amp draw
5.4 amps @ 5.75v , at 1 min 76 deg C
test stopped 1:30 heat rise to 100 deg and voltage drop

Kontronic BEC 30
input 4s lipo pack 2000mah
I have one of these and it was the most expensive unit by far. The unit is rated for 3 amps but it cant get near that figure. It caused me a huge amount of grief in my E620 raptor. The unit i have cant cope with anymore than a logo 10 or smaller running analogue servos. It is currently installed in a heli and its too big a job to remove to test like these units suffice to say it would be usless anyway.

I actually tested the unit. At 1.5 amps it died, an absolute waste of time and money. Due to my disgust i destroyed the unit and put it in the bin.

Dualsky 5v-6v Reg VR8L starting temp 20deg C
Input 2s flightpower 1500mah pack (voltages not recorded)
Start voltage 6.02v
peak reading 5.50amps @ 5.90v
Test run at at max amp draw
5.5 amps @ 5.89v , at 1 min 30 deg C
same at 2 mins 35 deg C

Dualsky 5v-6v Reg VR5L starting temp 25deg C
Input 2s flightpower 1500mah pack (voltages not recorded)
Start voltage 5.99v
peak reading 6amps @ 5.90v
Test run at at max amp draw
5.4 amps @ 5.85v , at 1 min 60 deg C
same at 2 mins 72 deg C

this is a 5 amp unit , i decided to run it harder to see how it went(good).

Western Robotics Hercules HV 6v Reg 5 amp starting temp 25deg C
input 4s lipo pack 2000mah
Start voltage 5.972v
peak reading 5.38amps @ 5.69v
Test run at at max amp draw
5.28 amps @ 5.69v , at 1 min 50 deg C
5.20 amps @ 5.69v at 2 mins 60 deg C

Sport BEC 5v-6v Reg 6v setting 3.5amp unit starting temp 25deg C
4s lipo pack 2000mah
Start voltage 5.9v
peak reading 5.18 amps @ 5.69v
Test run at at 3.5 amp draw
3.5 amps @ 5.76v , at 1 min 40 deg C
same @ 5.74v at 2 mins 65 deg C

Emcotec dpsi rv 5v-6v Reg starting temp 22deg C
Input 2s flightpower 1500mah pack (voltages not recorded)
Start voltage 5.96v at 6v setting
peak reading 5.44amps @ 5.76v
Test run at at max amp draw
5.42 amps @ 5.76v , at 1 min 36 deg C
5.30 amps @ 5.74v at 2 mins 43 deg C

This is a ripper unit. Pricey, comes with a failsafe switch and duel leads.

we can never have too many, can we ?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
02-22-2008 03:25 PM  10 years agoPost 98
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A lot of interesting numbers that I would like to see on a spread sheet.

BUT, to evaluate the regulators, we need to have the input voltage listed, not just the output voltage. I assume they're all linears.

Then I can identify the power dissipation over time against the temperature rise.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-22-2008 03:56 PM  10 years agoPost 99
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It would you nice if there were more in-flight test results posted using the several inexpensive recorders available such as the EagleTree, Medusa Oracle, or BNB DPR. When the weather breaks I'll be able to post some results. 6" of snow today.

  

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-22-2008 05:46 PM  10 years agoPost 100
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

now that i think about it, im not sure if it matters if it is in flight.

it is all a matter of keeping things consistent. as long as you do the same tests for each one, the results in the air should be similar, if one runs cooler in a test, it should also run cooler in the air, verses one that ran hotter in a test.

but just by looking at the temps, it looks like the Arizona is a winner.

although these results on the duralite show much lower temps then my tests revealed...maybe they changed something in the design?

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 8 pages [ <<    <     3      4     ( 5 )     6      7     NEXT    >> ] 8865 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Something interesting about Duralite Regulators
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 25  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, December 13 - 11:24 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online